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Author Topic:   Hovind busted, finally
saureanescapade
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 308 (333231)
07-19-2006 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by nator
07-13-2006 10:26 PM


Science has to remain objective
This is a big load off bull you are feeding into the forum

You should never open your mouth and make emmotional loaded statements that have absolutley no validation in the academic field!!!

Make sure you know what you are talking about, because unless you have a doctorate in Science pertaining to physcics, chemestry or biology, your opinions caount for scrap.
And even if Kent Hovind evaded tax, because he does not read his bible, that still does not make the stuff he teaches incorrect.

Man, you should go and get yourself an education

Might I suggest Philosophy 101? And perhaps Philosophy of evolution as well as critical thinking

And if you want to be such an aethistic, Schadenfroh, stuek drek and slander people without them being able to defend themselves, you are crossing a line with God, that he will not forgive you for if you do not seriously think about you and life, and how final death can be.

Thank you


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AdminModulous
Administrator (Idle past 655 days)
Posts: 897
Joined: 03-02-2006


Message 77 of 308 (333232)
07-19-2006 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by saureanescapade
07-19-2006 7:20 AM


Welcome to EvC!
Enjoy your stay here, and I hope it is a long and interesting one.

There are some links in my sig which can help you get started, and you might want to peruse the Forum Guidelines. In light of this rather emotive and attacking post, I recommend number 10 and perhaps number 4 too.

'stuek drek' is not respectful and is not a good first impression here, please try restrain yourself: even if you think your opponent is a piece of dirt, you should refrain from saying so.

Thank you, any replies to this post should be made in the 'General discussion of moderation procedures' thread, the link to which is in my signature below.


New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.

Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by saureanescapade, posted 07-19-2006 7:20 AM saureanescapade has not yet responded

PaulK
Member
Posts: 16320
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 78 of 308 (333243)
07-19-2006 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by saureanescapade
07-19-2006 7:20 AM


Re: Science has to remain objective
You should be aware of the following facts.

1) This thread only concerns Hovind's arrest and tax evasion.

2) Hovind's past record, associates and current behaviour all tend to indicate guilt.

3) People can follow the links back and see that your assertions bear no resemblance to the post you are supposedly replying to.

4) Hovind is embarrassing even to other creationists

5) While taking the classes you suggest might be useful to some people it will not persuade them to beleive Hovind. Rather the opposite


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by saureanescapade, posted 07-19-2006 7:20 AM saureanescapade has not yet responded

Chief Infidel
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 308 (333299)
07-19-2006 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by saureanescapade
07-19-2006 7:20 AM


Defamation: Slander and Libel
And if you want to...slander people without them being able to defend themselves, you are crossing a line with God, that he will not forgive you for if you do not seriously think about you and life, and how final death can be.

As an aside, Kent Hovind clearly meets the test of a public figure.

Here on earth, in the United States, it is more difficult to defame (slander or libel) a public figure than a regular joe (the element of "actual malice" comes into play). Of course, god's law, to which you refer, is likely different. The ultimate defense to defamation is truth of the statement. Another defense is that the statement made is an opinion rather than a purported statement of fact.

For example, even if he were not a public figure, I can say "Hovind is a criminal" This statement is both true and opinion. Evidence of this is his criminal record and former conviction(s). It is also my opinion that Hovind is a criminal, and I base this on his past convictions. Saying "Hovind is a snake-oil salesman" is opinion, as I am not suggesting that he actually sells oil made from snakes. Neither statement is slander or libel.

Concerning god's law, in past court preceedings Kent Hovind has clearly violated some of the 10 commandments. Now, an argument can be made that by saying that he owns nothing, even the guns belong to his church, and that everything he owns belongs to god, Hovind is taking the lord's name in vein. Hovind's lawsuit against the IRS investigators likely constitutes bearing false witness against his neighbors. But, this is god's law. We should leave god in charge of his laws (after all, we would likely violate a commandment if we were to try to enforce god's laws) and we should be in charge of the laws on earth.

So slander away!

Edited by Chief Infidel, : sllepnig


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by saureanescapade, posted 07-19-2006 7:20 AM saureanescapade has not yet responded

CK
Member (Idle past 2679 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 80 of 308 (333308)
07-19-2006 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by saureanescapade
07-19-2006 7:20 AM


Re: Science has to remain objective
Hovind is a crank with a worthless Papermill Phd that's not worth toilet paper.

If Hovind feels like suing me (and I live in the UK so it's pricy to do) for libel, feel free to put him in touch. Of course to win, he'd have to present his PhD to the court and show that it's not a papermill one. Fat chance of that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by saureanescapade, posted 07-19-2006 7:20 AM saureanescapade has not yet responded

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1599 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 81 of 308 (334358)
07-22-2006 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by saureanescapade
07-19-2006 7:20 AM


Eye for Eye....Tooth for Tooth
And even if Kent Hovind evaded tax, because he does not read his bible, that still does not make the stuff he teaches incorrect.

You are making way too much sense.

Might I suggest Philosophy 101? And perhaps Philosophy of evolution as well as critical thinking

Again, your advice is just too sensical. Do you know who you are talking to ?

You are talking to persons who must engage in ad hom when a source presents evidence they cannot refute. It doesn't matter if Hovind is a child rapist or a racist like Darwin who conceived of human evolution after his ''Beagle'' visit to Tierra del Fuego. Darwin deemed the Fuegians "the lowest form of humanity on earth....In 1838 while struggling to understand how evolution worked, Darwin's thoughts returned to the Fuegians and their apparent similarity to primates in the London Zoo" (Larson 2004:67). This is the origin of human evolution, after the theory was conceived and the first drawing of the Tree of Life by Darwin in 1837.

In sequence, God is rejected as Creator THEN Darwin makes racist correspondence. Notice the "scientific nature" of the discovery. A need fulfilled by racism propagated under the false disguise of science.

Once a person rejects God they are eligible to believe anything, including the eyes of a racist to account for human origins.

I'll take a tax evader anyday - and I am talking to you Charles Knight.

Ray

Edited by Herepton, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 160 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 82 of 308 (334389)
07-22-2006 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Cold Foreign Object
07-22-2006 6:47 PM


The Elements of Sty
Harumpton writes:

You are talking to persons who must engage in ad hom when a source presents evidence they cannot refute.
...
Once a person rejects God they are eligible to believe anything, including the eyes of a racist to account for human origins.

I'll take a tax evader anyday - and I am talking to you Charles Knight.

Buy a grammar, boy.


God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ‘Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’
--Ann Coulter, Fox-TV: Hannity & Colmes, 20 Jun 01

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-22-2006 6:47 PM Cold Foreign Object has not yet responded

nator
Member (Idle past 721 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 83 of 308 (334392)
07-22-2006 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by saureanescapade
07-19-2006 7:20 AM


Re: Science has to remain objective
quote:
This is a big load off bull you are feeding into the forum
You should never open your mouth and make emmotional loaded statements that have absolutley no validation in the academic field!!!

Make sure you know what you are talking about, because unless you have a doctorate in Science pertaining to physcics, chemestry or biology, your opinions caount for scrap.
And even if Kent Hovind evaded tax, because he does not read his bible, that still does not make the stuff he teaches incorrect.

Man, you should go and get yourself an education

Might I suggest Philosophy 101? And perhaps Philosophy of evolution as well as critical thinking

And if you want to be such an aethistic, Schadenfroh, stuek drek and slander people without them being able to defend themselves, you are crossing a line with God, that he will not forgive you for if you do not seriously think about you and life, and how final death can be.

Thank you


You're welcome.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by saureanescapade, posted 07-19-2006 7:20 AM saureanescapade has not yet responded

Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2545 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 84 of 308 (334454)
07-23-2006 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Cold Foreign Object
07-22-2006 6:47 PM


Re: Eye for Eye....Tooth for Tooth
Darwin deemed the Fuegians "the lowest form of humanity on earth....In 1838 while struggling to understand how evolution worked, Darwin's thoughts returned to the Fuegians and their apparent similarity to primates in the London Zoo" (Larson 2004:67).

Shame! And Darwin a Christian, too.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-22-2006 6:47 PM Cold Foreign Object has not yet responded

MUTTY6969
Member (Idle past 4742 days)
Posts: 65
From: ARIZONA
Joined: 05-20-2006


Message 85 of 308 (334459)
07-23-2006 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Cold Foreign Object
07-22-2006 6:47 PM


Re: Eye for Eye....Tooth for Tooth
I thought it was the bible that most racist used to back their claims?:rolleyes:


You wanna be, uhh, blunt about what has taken place, sometimes when you don't measure, you just shuffle kids through. Then you wake up at the high school level and find out that the illiter -- literacy level of our children are appalling.
-- It sure are, Mr. Bush, it sure are... not to mention adults, Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

This message is a reply to:
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Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 86 of 308 (334462)
07-23-2006 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Cold Foreign Object
07-22-2006 6:47 PM


Re-Reading Beagle
Herepton writes:

a racist like Darwin who conceived of human evolution after his ''Beagle'' visit to Tierra del Fuego. Darwin deemed the Fuegians "the lowest form of humanity on earth....In 1838 while struggling to understand how evolution worked, Darwin's thoughts returned to the Fuegians and their apparent similarity to primates in the London Zoo" (Larson 2004:67). This is the origin of human evolution, after the theory was conceived and the first drawing of the Tree of Life by Darwin in 1837.


Sorry, but I have to call bull crap. I haven't read Larson's Evolution but if he claims that about Darwin it is full of crap. I have Darwin's Voyage of the Beagle in front of me and I challenge you to show me where he says Fuegians are like primates in the zoo. He talks about their 'primitive' culture and apparent (by his standard) imperviousness to cold. Before posting this I just reread the chapter. One of his friends on the Beagle is a Fuegian who was captured years before and brought along as a translator (along with two others).

I do not have Larson's book, but if he makes this claim he is wrong. I will order a copy and verify.


Doctor Bashir: "Of all the stories you told me, which were true and which weren't?"
Elim Garak: "My dear Doctor, they're all true"
Doctor Bashir: "Even the lies?"
Elim Garak: "Especially the lies"

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 2679 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 87 of 308 (334463)
07-23-2006 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Lithodid-Man
07-23-2006 7:00 AM


Re: Re-Reading Beagle
If I remember correctly Darwin was talking about the cultural aspects of the Fuegians society - which would be in keeping of the worldview of the time.

I've never seen reference to a zoo either.

Edited by CK, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Lithodid-Man, posted 07-23-2006 7:00 AM Lithodid-Man has not yet responded

Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 88 of 308 (334474)
07-23-2006 9:05 AM


Topic Drift Alert
Unless someone can describe how evolution's racist foundations bear upon Hovind's tax problems, I'm going to have to rule this off-topic.

Evolution's inherently racist nature has been a consistent theme for Syamsu. Perhaps someone would like to propose this topic for the Showcase forum so that Syamsu can also participate.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1599 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 89 of 308 (334821)
07-24-2006 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Admin
07-23-2006 9:05 AM


Re: Topic Drift Alert
Evolution's inherently racist nature has been a consistent theme for Syamsu. Perhaps someone would like to propose this topic for the Showcase forum so that Syamsu can also participate.

I have....will you please promote ?

www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2176&m=1 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2176&m=1">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2176&m=1

Ray


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 Message 88 by Admin, posted 07-23-2006 9:05 AM Admin has not yet responded

Modulous
Member (Idle past 655 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 90 of 308 (335954)
07-28-2006 5:42 AM


This weeks update
Pensacola news reports (my bold to highlight unusual phrase):

U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers denied this week, the request to lift travel restrictions for Pensacola creationist Kent Hovind.

Hovind, who calls himself “Dr. Dino” and operates Dinosaur Adventure Land, at 5800 N. Palafox St., was scheduled to travel to five South African cities between Aug. 12 and Aug. 21 to debate scientists who refute his belief that man did not evolve from dinosaurs but, rather, lived alongside them.

After prosecutors argued earlier this month that Hovind posed a flight risk if allowed to leave the country, U.S. Magistrate Judge Miles Davis ordered Hovind to surrender his passport.

Hovind said the travel restrictions violates his constitutional right to freedom religion and is contrary to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

Rodgers disagreed, pointing to Supreme Court decisions that neutral restrictions with general applications that incidentally burden religious practices do not violate the free exercise clause of the First Amendment.

Hovind doesn't seem to be getting things his way. I guess judges are used to oratory and are simply ignoring it in favour of what the law actually says.


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