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Member (Idle past 6373 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Israel/Lebanon/Gaza conflict (continuation thread) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
johnfolton  Suspended Member (Idle past 5611 days) Posts: 2024 Joined: |
The lebonese civilians by accepting heboolas blood money buy storing weapons for Israels destruction in their homes (the lebonese peoples are clearly in violation the UN treaty). The lebonese civilians are not innocent and by shielding their heboolas brothers are equal conspirators in their war against Israel.
Israel (to their credit) warns where they are going to bomb heboolas, if the lebonese civilians want to be martrys thats their choice not Israels fault. Israel has the right to defend itself, the lebonese have by choosing to stay behind to be blown into small pieces, is prophecy concering Israel being fullfilled. Zec 12:2 psalm 58:7 zec 12:3 zec 12:2
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
All the hall marks of a good troll. Question: are children also guilty of storing weapons for hezbollah? Are they guilty by association?
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CK Member (Idle past 4147 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
Is that what you plan to say to your God when you stand in front of him on judgement day?
"those kids deserved it". and it's "lebanese". Edited by CK, : No reason given.
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melatonin Member (Idle past 6229 days) Posts: 126 From: Cymru Joined: |
I'm sure, like the muslim terrorists, you'll make your god very proud.
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lfen Member (Idle past 4697 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
Well, as there are still a lot of documents that remain classified it appears all the evidence is not in. The survivors of the attack believe that the Israeli's knew it was an American ship. I side with their evaluation. I think the prosecution has the stronger case. But there is no final proof either way at this point and until and if it's declassified we can't know if the classified material would really help or not.
I'll leave this at I'm suspicious but can't prove my suspicions regarding both the attack on the USS Liberty and the UN observatin post. So I'll say Isreal is innocent until proven guilty but I still strongly suspect guilt would we have access to all the information which unfortunately we don't and probably never will. So I think they probably got away with it. It happens and during wartime it happens a lot. lfen
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iano Member (Idle past 1961 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Should the US call a ceasefire in Iraq?
Too late for that. I know it is. But Jar seemed to think that the mere calling of a ceasefire at any point in the proceedings makes a ceasefire "as simple as that". There are times when it is possible (when both parties have arrived at the point where it might be considered as a preferable strategic device - as in Northern Ireland) and times when it is not (one or both parties see an alternative route as being most profitable in terms of achieving ultimate objectives). Jar's grasp on such realites seemed to me to be simplistic in the extreme.
Should the Allies have called a ceasefire before Dresden and Hiroshima?
Yes. Both the Dresden fire storm and Hiroshima were unnecessary bloody revenge. Can you imagine the effect on the moral of the German troops when news of Dresden filtered through. Yes, there would have been some whose desire to exact revenge would have been inflamed, but globally such news (along with reports of less destructive but frequent bombings on many more cities) would have been devastating. Soldiers whose thoughts have turned irrevocably to loved ones at home do not efficient fighters make. A war which the top line knew to be long lost filtered down in no uncertain terms to the baseline. It was obscene - there has been few acts of terrorism to parallel it - but if you're looking not at the obscenity or (do not take me up wrong in this)...the efficiency of it - but take it as something which contributes to winning a war at the stage that it was set then..
No, kill kill kill is really pretty simple. Hasn't worked yet ...is a statement I would have to disagree with. Hiroshima underlines the point even more strikingly (again, I beg tolerance of such words). Obscenely inefficient - but it resulted in an ending of the war. Killing always gets peoples attention. And when prolonged conflict dulled peoples appreciation for death then super-massive death and extreme fear is a way (an obscene and depraved way) of getting their attention.
How many times has Israel tried the Hammer of God Solution? Ms. Rice sees "the birth pangs of a new Middle East" among th cluster bombs strafing fleeing Lebanese civilians; Kissinger made similar remarks in 1982--the birthing then was of Hezbollah. What do you think is being born amidst the rubble now--surrender? Not bloody likely. I take it from the longevity of the situation that you don't see it as simply Israel not responding to a call for a ceasefire. Surely you, like me, are more cynical than that. I am no blind supporter of Israels way of doing things anymore than I am a supporter of Hizbollahs. Not for me some notion that Israel are 'Gods chosen people' and that anything they do has Gods stamp of approval on it. But to suppose that you can place, in the position of prime import, the winning of hearts-and-minds when you are faced with a general problem of surviving as a nation in an environment which generally wants your scalp is mixing motivation-for-war metaphors. 'Hearts and minds' is an approach that applies to some - not all - wars. Might I push it out a bit to suggest that 'hearts and minds' is a device employed to win a war in the quickest possible fashion before casualties cause the folks back home call a halt? Which may not apply in so widespreadly as a notion to the folk in Israel. I wonder which war has ever succeeded on the basis of hearts and minds anyway. It's an abstract concept which salves those who need salving for the days ahead - not a concept that has actually achieved much on the field of battle - as far as I am aware. It seems to be something best left to the time when the war is over.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
OK that's fair. We don't know for sure. I just have a hard time imagining any motive, and can see lots of reasons why they would want to avoid such a mistake like the plague.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
How many pictures of Israelis who have been hurt by Hezbollah attacks has anybody seen, compared to the pictures of Lebanese sufferers of Israel's? I just clicked through an AOL collection of 16 pictures from the war, every last one of them showing either Lebanese sufferers or pictures of Israeli soldiers that could be interpreted as sinister-looking it seems to me.
Click on pictures
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Israel bombded some oil depots creating a massive environmental problem ruining a tourist beach that had nothing to do with Hizbollah. How do you know it had nothing to do with Hezbollah?
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2285 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
How many pictures of Israelis who have been hurt by Hezbollah attacks has anybody seen, compared to the pictures of Lebanese sufferers of Israel's?
Lebanese civillian deaths outnumber Israeli's by about 10 to 1, of course you're going to see more pictures of them than of Israelis. Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
OK, I concede. There's too much history involved for me to investigate details but you made your point.
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iano Member (Idle past 1961 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Faiths link:
shortened link quote: If anyone wants to see a classic example of the inability of the press to report objectively (on anything) then photo 13 (which is described by the above) should suffice... Edited by AdminJar, : shorten long link Edited by iano, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The media bias is obvious to someone who supports Israel, though may be taken uncritically by anyone else. Emotion-rousing media coverage, not checking facts ...
Jewish Virtual Library on Disinformation A CNN reporter is taken to an area of Beirut and told that the rubble of buildings is a result of Israeli air strikes on civilian targets. The reporter repeats the allegation as fact. He has no way of knowing what was in the buildings, whether it was a rocket workshop, a hiding place for katyushas, the home of a Hizballah leader, or a command center. In fact, he doesn’t even know if the Israel was responsible for the destruction that he is shown. In waging their propaganda war, Israel’s enemies count on journalists to report first and research later, if at all, and CNN and other media outlets have fallen into their trap. Israel’s adversaries learned a long time ago that they can attract publicity and sympathy by fabricating statistics and screaming “massacre.” This was the case in April 2002 when Palestinians claimed that 500 people were “massacred” in Jenin. They could not produce any evidence to support the scurrilous charge, and their own review committee reported a death toll of 56, of whom 34 were combatants. By the time the truth was reported, the story had been repeated throughout the world media and Israel’s image was tarnished... The press is also spending a great deal of time talking to Lebanese civilians and their relatives in the United States and highlighting the difficult conditions they are enduring. This is no doubt the case since they are living in a war zone; however, the media has spent almost no time talking to the Israelis living under the constant threat of rocket attacks. Few reporters have gone into the bomb shelters to interview the frightened Israeli families. No one seems interested in how the relatives of Israelis in the United States feel about their loved ones being under siege.
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iano Member (Idle past 1961 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
A good friend of mine is a top crime journalist in Ireland. Conversations with him indicate to me that we shouldn't go pointing the finger at journalists-in-Israel per se.
News is a product, journalists have to produce that product. If the do not then journalists they will no longer be. As long as the story can be sold as something which meets the general criteria required which places the product on the shelf then all is fair game. What sells is what the consumer is prepared to buy. "Sources say" (for that is what they said - for whatever reason), "Amheds mother said that he was a good boy and that..." (for that is what she said of him) There is no more reason to trust a journalist saying "that is what is truly happening" than there is to trust what the packaging of any other product says. And if anybody should object I would ask them to state why it is they do so.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes, that picture really says it. All these happy healthy Israelis destroying the poor helpless Lebanese.
Besides the pictures of suffering Lebanese (and no doubt about it, many are suffering), and the happy healthy Israeli soldiers by contrast, the last picture of the Israeli soldier smoking a cigarette also struck me as an attempt to present a sinister or callous image of the Israelis.
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