Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Belief Statements - Robinrohan
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 99 (338070)
08-05-2006 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by lfen
08-04-2006 7:50 PM


Re: Are beings synonymous with organisms?
Beings possess consciousness and you are referring chiefly if not exclusively to earth based lifeforms?
That's the only ones we know of.
You are not sure if consciousness is a quality of all life, including bacteria or have you arrived at a cutoff point? Like say oh worms maybe?
There's a cut-off point somewhere. One essay I read set forth this ingenious idea that the way we know if an animal possesses consciousnes or not is whether or not it sleeps. If they sleep, then it is likely that they are conscious when they are awake. Most animals don't sleep (according to the essay).
It seems that you are then agreeing with the position that consciousness is an emergent quality in the universe that come about when? With cells? With sufficiently complex neural organisation? With brain?
It evolved gradually somehow. Admittedly, that is mysterious.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by lfen, posted 08-04-2006 7:50 PM lfen has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 99 (338071)
08-05-2006 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Faith
08-04-2006 10:46 PM


Re: Are beings synonymous with organisms?
Sometimes that sense of being so enclosed in this so very specific strangeness of my I-ness can give me chills, make my hair stand on end.
It can be a lonely feeling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Faith, posted 08-04-2006 10:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 08-05-2006 9:57 AM robinrohan has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 99 (338141)
08-05-2006 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by nator
08-05-2006 6:01 PM


Re: Thank you
How does a person do that?
All you have to do is think logically.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by nator, posted 08-05-2006 6:01 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by nator, posted 08-05-2006 7:17 PM robinrohan has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 99 (338143)
08-05-2006 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
08-05-2006 9:57 AM


Re: Strangeness of the isolated consciousness or self
Can, but what gets to me is a sort of spookiness, the strangeness of it when you really look right at it.
Yes, when you look in the mirror.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 08-05-2006 9:57 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 08-05-2006 7:00 PM robinrohan has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 99 (338144)
08-05-2006 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by nator
08-05-2006 6:04 PM


Re: Thank you
Maybe it's all that time spent hindered by an alcohol-befuddled brain that is the problem rather than the solution.
Not quite befuddled yet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by nator, posted 08-05-2006 6:04 PM nator has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 99 (338160)
08-05-2006 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by nator
08-05-2006 7:17 PM


Re: Thank you
"Logical" and "objective" are not the same thing.
Same thing.
How does one come to the logical conclusion that, "all purposes are equal"?
Since they are all subjective, they are all equal. One might as well prefer one color to another.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by nator, posted 08-05-2006 7:17 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by nator, posted 08-05-2006 9:09 PM robinrohan has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 99 (338162)
08-05-2006 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
08-05-2006 2:06 PM


Re: All are welcome: good and bad experiences.
Many times, many churches are coldly exclusivist,(usually unconsciously) judgemental . . .
Those are the ones I like. I would love to be exclusive.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 08-05-2006 2:06 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Phat, posted 08-09-2006 9:31 AM robinrohan has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 99 (338163)
08-05-2006 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
08-05-2006 7:00 PM


No, I did not mean it as a joke. Looking in a mirror carefully is spooky.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 08-05-2006 7:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 08-05-2006 9:14 PM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 67 by iano, posted 08-05-2006 9:21 PM robinrohan has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 99 (338166)
08-05-2006 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by nator
08-05-2006 9:09 PM


Re: Thank you
Any logic begins with a premise which is an assumption which may or may not be subjective.
I'm talking about the logic, not the premises.
"Subjective" is not, by definition, "equal".
It is in terms of being evidence of anything. If one's idea is subjective, it's no good as evidence.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by nator, posted 08-05-2006 9:09 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by nator, posted 08-05-2006 9:23 PM robinrohan has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 99 (338170)
08-05-2006 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by iano
08-05-2006 9:21 PM


Re: Windows to the soul indeed
Looking at a dead spirit is looking at death. It is spooky
This thing I'm looking at in the mirror is not dead. It's just not me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by iano, posted 08-05-2006 9:21 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by iano, posted 08-05-2006 9:26 PM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 75 by Faith, posted 08-05-2006 9:37 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 08-05-2006 9:55 PM robinrohan has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 99 (338175)
08-05-2006 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by nator
08-05-2006 9:23 PM


Re: Thank you
Relying only on empirical evidence and logic, one can't say one purpose is better than another purpose", then I agree.
Well, obviously that's what I meant.
But you can't then say that there is no basis whatsoever for judging one basis as superior than any other, which is not true.
If it's not a result of induction or deduction, it's worthless in terms of being evidence of truth. Surely you would agree with this?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by nator, posted 08-05-2006 9:23 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by nator, posted 08-05-2006 9:49 PM robinrohan has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 99 (338209)
08-06-2006 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by nator
08-05-2006 9:49 PM


Re: Thank you
You said, in effect, "it is objectively true that all purposes are of the same value".
That's right. If a purpose is subjective, which I assume all our purposes are, then there's no logical, objective reason to choose one over the other. It's just a matter of personal preference.
Any kind of argument we come up with to show that one purpose is superior to another will just beg the question.
Suppose your purpose is to rid the world of cancer.
You might say, "By ridding the world of cancer, I will have performed a great feat. I will lengthen the lives of many, many people now and in future generations."
Why should lengthening the lives of many, many people now and in future generations be accepted as a superior goal? Upon what basis?
The basis would be some assumption, perhaps, about the value of human life. But why should human life be considered particularly valuable? In an objective sense, there is no such quality as "value."
Or the basis might be some moral assumption about the superiority of helping others. Why should that moral assumption be accepted? It's just a subjective assumption.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by nator, posted 08-05-2006 9:49 PM nator has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 99 (338706)
08-09-2006 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Faith
08-05-2006 9:37 PM


Re: Windows to the soul indeed
OK, now I get it. Sort of
An eerie detached sensation. In and out of the self.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Faith, posted 08-05-2006 9:37 PM Faith has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 95 of 99 (338707)
08-09-2006 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Phat
08-09-2006 9:31 AM


Re: All are welcome: good and bad experiences.
But you are, Robin, you are. Or is a better word unique?
Well, if I was going to go to a church, I wouldn't want to have to hobnob with the riffraff.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Phat, posted 08-09-2006 9:31 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 08-10-2006 7:23 AM robinrohan has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 99 (338889)
08-10-2006 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Phat
08-10-2006 7:23 AM


Re: All are welcome: good and bad experiences.
Do you have many beggars in the town you live in? How do you treat them?
Yes, we have many. If somebody is missing limbs, I might give something. Otherwise, I ignore them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 08-10-2006 7:23 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 08-10-2006 8:08 AM robinrohan has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024