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Author Topic:   The implications of quantum physics.
duf31
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 39 (340758)
08-17-2006 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by mitchellmckain
08-15-2006 1:55 PM


Re: determinism and causality
Hi,
Hope you don't mind me contributing to this fascinating discussion. I've only been a day on this forum and already managed to inadvertently p*ss off one person, and I don't want to make a habit of it - yet.
mitchellmckain writes:
If determinism in physics holds then the scientific and religious pov are forever divided because there would be no room for non-physical causes (causes which are not objectively observable or measurable) in physical events. God could not then intervene in physical events without contravening the laws of physics
My take is diametrically opposed to this. It is easier for an omniscient, all-powerful god to intervene in a completely deterministic universe than in a non-deterministic one.
Let me take weather forecasting as an analogy. Simplistically, our ability to forecast the weather is limited by our (a) incomplete and (b) imprecise knowledge of the current state. While (a) may one day be perfectly overcome since there are only a finite number of particles in the atmosphere, (b) will never be overcome completely since in a finite universe one can't calculate anything to infinite precision, so the "butterfly effect" eventually takes over.
But these objections are as nothing to an entity with INFINITE capabilities. It is completely possible for such a being to set up the initial state of all the particles in the Big Bang (or whatever) so that in a strict deterministic fashion, all the water molecules in an certain sea on a certain planet "just happen" to move in the same direction at the exact time a group of slaves fleeing Egypt happen to be in the vicinity. We would see it as a Divine intervention in our "now", but it would be presumttuous to equate our "now" with that of an omniscient God.
In fact, it is quantum indeterminancy in a local universe that places limits on God's powers. For either the indeterminancy extends to Him, in which case He cannot be omniscient, or one has to come up with a scheme where variables hidden to us but not to God do not violate Bell's theorem.
I might even go so far as to say that strict physical determinism is a necessary condition for the existence of an omniscient God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by mitchellmckain, posted 08-15-2006 1:55 PM mitchellmckain has not replied

  
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