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Author Topic:   Should Evolution and Creation be Taught in School?
AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 256 of 308 (338329)
08-07-2006 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by crashfrog
08-07-2006 1:08 AM


POTM thread created
Apologies for the delay


This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by crashfrog, posted 08-07-2006 1:08 AM crashfrog has not replied

The Tiger
Inactive Member


Message 257 of 308 (338588)
08-08-2006 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by IrishPagan
08-06-2006 1:01 PM


What fossil aevidence? You mean a complete lack of transition forms? How aqbout the fact that all but one or two of the "primitive man" fossils were proven to be frauds.
Anyway, by creation, I don't at all believe in a young earth, I don't take genesis to be literal azt all really. I think the idea with that is to teach people important truths about life. I pretty much believe in evolution within a species but not from one to another. There is no hard evidence that I know of, for that, htough correct me if I'm wrong. There are also no observed example's of that sort of evolution happening in real time.
WE know macro evolution just doesn't account for it without divine guidence, and micro evolution is pretty weak theory. Again correct me if I'm wrong.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by ringo, posted 08-08-2006 4:49 PM The Tiger has not replied
 Message 259 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-09-2006 2:45 AM The Tiger has not replied
 Message 260 by ReverendDG, posted 08-09-2006 5:04 PM The Tiger has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 258 of 308 (338606)
08-08-2006 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by The Tiger
08-08-2006 3:25 PM


The Tiger writes:
...correct me if I'm wrong.
You're wrong.
But this thread is not about correcting your many, many, many misconceptions about evolution. It's about whether or not creation and evolution should be taught in school.
From your post, it seems clear that evolution should be taught in school - if only to counter the nonsensical ideas which you have gotten from creationist websites.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by The Tiger, posted 08-08-2006 3:25 PM The Tiger has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 259 of 308 (338664)
08-09-2006 2:45 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by The Tiger
08-08-2006 3:25 PM


What fossil aevidence? You mean a complete lack of transition forms?
I'm afraid someone has been lying to you. There are many examples of intermediate forms in the fossil record. Here are some examples of intermediate forms between vertebrate classes
And this is exactly the point I'm making. You can't expect a teacher to stand up and lie to the children and say "there are no intermediate forms", when the next day she's going to have to teach about them. You can say that with a clear conscience, 'cos you don't know that you're wrong. But someone with actual knowledge of the subject could not.
How aqbout the fact that all but one or two of the "primitive man" fossils were proven to be frauds.
Again, someone has been lying to you.
One supposed fossil, "Piltdown Man" was proven to be a hoax.
No other hominid fossil, and there are many, has been found to be the result of fraud, and I know of only one case where a fossil was found to be accidentally misidentified as hominid.
Again, you make my point beautifully. A teacher cannot be expected to recite this lie about "all but one or two of the "primitive man" fossils were proven to be frauds" and then the next day show the children dozens of non-fraudulent hominids. You can, 'cos you have no actual knowledge of hominid fossils. But a science teacher would.
I pretty much believe in evolution within a species but not from one to another. There is no hard evidence that I know of, for that, htough correct me if I'm wrong. There are also no observed example's of that sort of evolution happening in real time.
WE know macro evolution just doesn't account for it without divine guidence, and micro evolution is pretty weak theory. Again correct me if I'm wrong.
Again, you have been misinformed.
No only are there many such examples, but as you will see in the link, some creationist groups such as AiG admit it.
Now, do you begin to see why it would have been a good idea if you had spent more time learning about science?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by The Tiger, posted 08-08-2006 3:25 PM The Tiger has not replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4111 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 260 of 308 (338749)
08-09-2006 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by The Tiger
08-08-2006 3:25 PM


I sgree with Ringo, if this is the kind of tripe people are hearing about evolution, then we do need to teach it
i mean come on "macro-evolution" takes long periods of time of course we can't see it in real-time if we wanted to we would have to find someway to become immortal. now we have found animals and reclassified them..but not in real time
WE know macro evolution just doesn't account for it without divine guidence, and micro evolution is pretty weak theory. Again correct me if I'm wrong.
this assuption is just wrong, if we agreed that some god made the animals we wouldn't be having this debate, there wouldn't be any point to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by The Tiger, posted 08-08-2006 3:25 PM The Tiger has not replied

kalimero
Member (Idle past 2445 days)
Posts: 251
From: Israel
Joined: 04-08-2006


Message 261 of 308 (338975)
08-10-2006 1:44 PM


I think we are not doing enough in the way of explaining evolution:
Science and Nature

The Tiger
Inactive Member


Message 262 of 308 (341223)
08-18-2006 10:56 PM


Well heck, now I don't know what think. I guess I have been misinformed-maybe-Ii don't know. I'm at least trying to leanr and expand my knowledge and find the truth.

The Tiger
Inactive Member


Message 263 of 308 (341228)
08-18-2006 11:04 PM


Fair enough. I need to clarify, I take much of the bible to be symbolic and metaphorical, with the goal of making the principles and teachings simple to understand, not word for word records of histrory (except in some cases). I do take a few things literal (like the deity of christ) but much of it, mainly the beginnings of genesis and a few other parts, I take to be symbolic. Has anyone read any of Gerald Shroeders work? The Jewish physicist.

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by ringo, posted 08-18-2006 11:19 PM The Tiger has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 264 of 308 (341233)
08-18-2006 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by The Tiger
08-18-2006 11:04 PM


The Tiger writes:
I guess I have been misinformed-maybe-Ii don't know. I'm at least trying to leanr and expand my knowledge and find the truth.
Good attitude.
Has anyone read any of Gerald Shroeders work? The Jewish physicist.
If I'm not mistaken, one of our members named GDR has mentioned Shroeder. You might want to check out some of his posts.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 265 of 308 (341251)
08-19-2006 12:47 AM


Atheism religion
A bit old, but wth.
From
http://www.afa.net/clp/ReleaseDetail.asp?id=102
For Immediate Release: 8/19/2005
Chicago, IL - A federal court of appeals has ruled in favor of an inmate who claimed that Wisconsin prison officials violated his rights under the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment because they refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.
The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that prison officials erred because they “did not treat atheism as a ”religion.’” “Atheism,” said the court, “is [the inmate’s] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being.”
Brian Fahling, senior trial attorney for the American Family Association Center for Law & Policy, described the court’s ruling as “a sort of Alice in Wonderland jurisprudence.” “Up is down, and atheism, the antithesis of religion, is religion,” stated Fahling.
The Supreme Court has said that a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the Court described “secular humanism” as a religion.
Fahling pointed to today’s ruling as “further evidence of the incoherence Establishment Clause jurisprudence.” “It is difficult not to be somewhat jaundiced about our courts,” continued Fahling, “when they take clauses especially designed to protect religion from the state and turn them on their head by giving protective cover to a belief system, that, by every known definition other than the courts’ is not a religion, while simultaneously declaring public expressions of true religious faith to be prohibited.”
Woohoo, now we can apply to teach atheism/secular humanism and its kissing cousin,TOE, in theology classes.

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-19-2006 6:11 AM Nighttrain has replied

obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4116 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 266 of 308 (341261)
08-19-2006 1:48 AM


I have no problem with teaching creationism in schools. I merely request that they teach creationism, from the mayan to the Native Americans, to the Chinese to the Christian versions of it. Creation stories from around the world, of different cultures.
But there's a reason why ID and Orthodox Creationists vehemently do not want this to happen.

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 267 of 308 (341313)
08-19-2006 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by Nighttrain
08-19-2006 12:47 AM


Re: Atheism religion
Woohoo, now we can apply to teach atheism/secular humanism and its kissing cousin,TOE, in theology classes.
Hey, when you manage to fool a judge with your fatuous pretence that the theory of evolution has religious content, let us know. The fact that you have managed to fool yourself impresses no-one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Nighttrain, posted 08-19-2006 12:47 AM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Nighttrain, posted 08-19-2006 7:25 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 268 of 308 (341317)
08-19-2006 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by Dr Adequate
08-19-2006 6:11 AM


Re: Atheism religion
Diappointing, Dr. A. And here I thought you were more---um--perspicacious

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-19-2006 6:11 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-19-2006 8:00 AM Nighttrain has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 269 of 308 (341320)
08-19-2006 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Nighttrain
08-19-2006 7:25 AM


It looks like creationist rhetoric 101. If your intention was to be ironic, fair 'nough. Perspicacious I may be, but even I can't tell the difference between parodies of fundamentalism and the real thing. Remember --- we live in a world containing Kent Hovind. Need I say more?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Nighttrain, posted 08-19-2006 7:25 AM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Nighttrain, posted 08-19-2006 8:38 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 270 of 308 (341507)
08-19-2006 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Dr Adequate
08-19-2006 8:00 AM


Peace,bro.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-19-2006 8:00 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

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