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Author Topic:   Mutation and its role in evolution: A beginners guide
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3938 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 3 of 60 (342778)
08-23-2006 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Wounded King
08-23-2006 10:23 AM


Obviously the major focus of research into such things focuses on genetic mutations since we have a large number of tools for investigating and manipulating genes and a reasonable understanding of how they operate. This does not mean that genetic mutation is the be all and end all of mutation in terms of evolution, but it is certainly the best starting point.
What is an example of a non-genetic mutation?

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Wounded King, posted 08-23-2006 10:23 AM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Wounded King, posted 08-23-2006 3:32 PM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3938 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 5 of 60 (342795)
08-23-2006 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Wounded King
08-23-2006 3:32 PM


Although I could glean a bit from those abstracts, can you layman them up a bit for us. It sounds like there are aspects of heredity that are non-genetic? What then is a mutation in that context? I don't want to distract too much from the main topic, this just seemed interesting.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Wounded King, posted 08-23-2006 3:32 PM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Wounded King, posted 08-23-2006 5:02 PM Jazzns has replied
 Message 7 by Brad McFall, posted 08-23-2006 5:18 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3938 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 8 of 60 (342827)
08-23-2006 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Wounded King
08-23-2006 5:02 PM


Somehow I replied with a message 8 but it is not showing up.
I'll repeat my reply.
Ok. Lets see if I can distill this into something I can understand.
It is the action of these enzymes is what causes the change in phenotype?
The enzymes or creation of them is somehow heritable yet not genetic?
Is a "mutation" in this sense have to do with the differential presence of the enzymes or what they do the phenotype?
Do those questions even make sense?
Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Wounded King, posted 08-23-2006 5:02 PM Wounded King has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Aegist, posted 08-23-2006 9:33 PM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3938 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 18 of 60 (343024)
08-24-2006 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Aegist
08-23-2006 9:33 PM


Thanks for clearing that up. I think I understand it now.
The heritability of the enzyme is not the question. the enzymes (methyltransferases) are made from the DNA (which is heritable).
So really then we can just talk about genetic mutation since the source of the enzymes are genetic. Even in a round about way these mutations are genetic, just second hand.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

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 Message 9 by Aegist, posted 08-23-2006 9:33 PM Aegist has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Wounded King, posted 08-24-2006 4:39 PM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3938 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 21 of 60 (343096)
08-24-2006 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Wounded King
08-24-2006 4:39 PM


I am not fixated on everything being genetic. I just never knew that there was something other than genetic mutations and I am curious to understand it. I am just trying to learn. =)
I based my comments on this quote from Aegist.
the enzymes (methyltransferases) are made from the DNA (which is heritable)
I am having a hard time trying to keep track of all this new terminology and I assumed that methyltransferases is the agent that is "stopping the expression" which is the phrase that is used.
Aegist's comment made it seem that this agent is made from the DNA, I still don't know how else to interpret that comment. I made the connection.
Some DNA creates methyltransferases
methyltransferases blocks other DNA
So therefore the original "Some DNA" is actually the source of this mutation. Then if that DNA was altered, the methyltransferases would change and the "other DNA" could be un-blocked.
That was my impression. It seems that my impression is somehow wrong. I am just curious to understand how this works. We can drop this if it is getting to far OT.
I don't know if these questions even make any sense but they would now be:
Where does the methyltransferases come from?
If not DNA, how then is the methyltransferases heritable?

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Wounded King, posted 08-24-2006 4:39 PM Wounded King has replied

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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3938 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 22 of 60 (343097)
08-24-2006 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Aegist
08-24-2006 6:05 PM


And I think the fact that methylation is reversible is the point which makes this sort of mutation special. It is heritable, but
not necessarily permanent... This makes it starkly different to standard Genetic mutation.
I guess that is where I am getting confused. How is it heritable? If it is hereditary, how can it be reversed?

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Aegist, posted 08-24-2006 6:05 PM Aegist has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 08-25-2006 2:50 AM Jazzns has not replied

  
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