True Freedom

Out of all the philosophers that you have studied, which one seems to ring true for you? In other words, which philosopher that you have studied (and lets not include Jesus) seems to hit the nail on the head for you?

We can agree that Capitalism usually produces Robber Barons and wealthy individuals.Theoretically, the idea of freedom from possessions sounds very Lennonesque.To Wit:IMAGINE (by John Lennon)Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

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Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

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You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

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Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

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You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

I guess I have always been tied up in the system.I have made some poor decisions in my financial life and I owe the system a good $42,000.00! Additionally, I have found no way---aside from living under a bridge and carrying a sign, of escaping the obligations of rent and bills. I dont mean to sound like a hypocritical idealist, but I am trapped in the system!

Charlie, you idealist. Come to chat!

I suppose that in some ways it IS sad. Why does it have to be sad, though?It is true that I am shackled do a nine to five. (usually more like 330-midnite) I enjoy talking with people, however. Of course I know some of the people that I work with, and we occasionally have very fun and funny days at work.On my days off, I have my volunteer work. There are some joys associated with that. Like today. Jaime called...it is his last year of school....he just got back from Cali and has many stories to tell. He is the first member of his family to graduate and he may even go on to college.Yes, I was in college. I had some young idealist friends....maybe somewhat similar to you...I dunno. They confidantly talked of many of the ideas and ideologies that they had learned. One of them, Mitchell, was a communist and proud of it.But it takes money to do everything. It took money to get Mitchell into college.It takes money to live...to buy equipment! (By the way, once you learn to have a mixing board on your computer, you can selectively redo your tracks and they will sound even more awesome!)But it takes money.You have the soul of an artist. Perhaps you should make a song about being shackled to the system. Edited by Phat, : spelling

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“There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way” --C.S.Lewis

Look at some of the challenges in other lives.

A single parent stuck with kids. They cant run. Its like your Father. Look at all he has sacrificed so that you can have a room and a place to play. Yet he is to be respected. Not pitied!

People in concentration camps had horrible existances. Yet many survived and went on to become great novelists and artists. The genius in their expression was forged in extreme circumstances.

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I guess that I dont see it the way that you do. You are almost 18 and poised to be able to strike out on your own. Freedom is cherished so much by you right now.

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I remember when I was 18. My Dad set me down and had one of those talks. I can remember it to this day, for he died shortly thereafter.

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He said "So....you are 18 and you think you know it all...."

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At the time, I really didnt think that I knew it all, yet in retrospect, I thought that I knew enough.

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Now...years later, I realize how different I am from then. I never know enough.

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My guess is that you have a big fear of being stuck. Stuck in a job. Stuck in the city. Stuck in the system.

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Its a healthy fear. Maybe you and your Father have had similar discussions...maybe he feels trapped but can't get out.

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The reality of college is that college costs money.

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The reality of life is that life costs money.

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A person does not have to remain shackled in their minds, however.

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Music, Poetry, Prose, and expression are some of the ways that we can escape the misery!

As an optician, you did your best. You made glasses and put food on the table for you and yours. You attempted to save a mans life in the course of your workday. I'm not sure if I could do that---I don't know CPR.I believe that Charlie has a case of waunderlust. He wants to get out and just be himself...sow his wild oats while attempting to remain true to his beliefs. If his musical prowess continues to improve, he may one day join a band with similar beliefs as his own in regards to escape from the world of jobs and responsibilities that inevitably await most people out of High School and college.They may make some money at it, and they may not---but they will learn a lot about themselves and their values as they express them to the people who frequent the venues where they will sing.I see Charlie (and Chris also) as an artistic soul that wants so much to express (themselves) to a world full of people.It still boils down to your philosophy, jar. They need to do their best at whatever it is that they choose to pursue.

Folderol? Don't you love chatting with young idealists, Schraff? It recharges my optimism usually. I know, I know! Reality checks are in the mail!Lets see if any responses are positive (optimistic) or negative (pessimistic) and we can go from there!

Was I right in guessing that you have a case of waunderlust? That see the world feeling? Do you fear being trapped in a job like I am? If so, I hear ya! Dang you! You are growing up, thats for sure! You are the opposite of me----I never wanted to leave home. Im satisfied in a stable routine (which some see as a rut and a trap) I can't see how the world will ever change, though. Human nature is too predictable.That does not mean that change is not possible. It will take an earth shaking event like a major war or a depression to make it happen, though. IMHO, anyway.Edited by Phat, : phat brain pharts

I really respect the fact that you opened up and shared this story.It touches my soul.

Just out of curiousity, is Jesus a person? Is He an idea or is He a distinct personality, in your belief? Finally, does The Holy Spirit (which has no gender specificity) manifest through others or does the Spirit manifest only through Christ?Im bringing this up because of other conversations regarding the gender of God.I appreciate your input, Charlie. You are gonna hafta write me a song someday!

Indeed. I have much love for both of you, even though you are at times arrogant acting, naive to the world around you, full of head knowledge and excitement at growing up, yet so limited in your actual experience of the world and of interactions with people.I can say this to both of you because I remember how I was at 18. I was so optimistic! Don't let the older advisors discourage you from having unbounded youthful optimism. I think that you guys intrinsically know that you have a lot to learn, yet you feel that it is nobodies business to inform you of this fact. You always have been a bit stubborn! There is a saying, though. Those who don't stand for something will fall for anything.To Wit:Flashback 2003! Do you still look at the Bible as an inerrent book, Charlie? Let me tell you what I believe. I believe that the character of the Bible---the whole reason that it was written---is because Jesus Christ (as Gods character and essence) was meant to supernaturally and bluntly interact with humanity. Thats why I am taking the time to compile this one post and to let you and Chris know how much I remember you and your contributions to EvC. Some of the writing here at EvC is heartfelt. Jar has taught me so much about an alternate way of looking at beliefs. I used to fight him because I saw his version of Christianity as so liberal. I watched the atheists attack the Bible and attempt to dismantle it from its place as the Word of God down to a book of myths and unexplainable miracles. So did you. You are not so dogmatic as you were back then---and I think that you should never fear losing your salvation by questioning the Bible, evolution, and the possibility that evolution may be a fact and the Bible may not be innerrent.While you were the zealous young creationist fundie, look at what Chris was doing back in 2003! This world of trinkets, games, sports, and diversions can appear to be so meaningless when compared to the great truths. Chris, I could get in a philosophical discussion with you, but im too tired and lazy to look anything up to discuss. Please understand my oldtime hardheadedness. I still want to communicate, but I realize that you guys have a busy year ahead of you. You know where to find me and how to get ahold of me, though. I'll let you contact me---just so nobody trips out! Omnivorous has taught me that an individual can have a life that is rich with experiences and that even a hurt child can grow up to have profound wisdom and value in life. Was that not Answers In Genesis, Charlie? Its fun to look at old posts that I made as well. You appear to have been zapped hard with the Holy Spirit when you were younger! Ahhh, the age of innocence---and yet----so much wisdom for a young lad! I was much the same way. The difference between me and you, Charlie--is that you got saved at 9 and I got saved at 32. Looking back, I observe that Charlie was the one who had appeared to have gotten infused with the Holy Spirit, while Chris was more philosophical.... God gave Charlie the obvious answer while He gave Chris a desire to find the ultimate questions.I dont know why I have held such an interest in you two! There are certainly many teenagers that are easier to relate to! In addition, I apologize for freaking you out by asking you to call me on the phone. In retrospect, I can see how that would raise more than a few eyebrows. Honestly, I was just bored one day and I wanted someone to talk to. I need to let God direct my relationships, though. For now, lets just say that you guys are spiritually adopted! Edited by Phat, : fixed a quoteEdited by Phat, : clarificationEdited by Phat, : further clarification

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“There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way” --C.S.Lewis

Maybe im the optimist! I think that Charlie is going to always be an optimist due to his early encounter with the Holy Spirit. I realize that the observer of the posts would conclude that the boys are cynical, particularly messenjah. Nevertheless, I remain optimistic that these teens are as unique as you or I. Nobody is typical, really.I really like that Ned Flanders quote, by the way! Edited by Phat, : Ned Flanders