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Author | Topic: True Freedom | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3598 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
How do the individuals here who have jobs, and live as "normal" individuals cope with how meaningless most of it all is? I love. I love a lot of things. I love going to work every day. I love being useful.When you enjoy a task, it has meaning enough. And I love the questions. Questions like these you ask. No, the answers don't come easily. And the answers change depending on history, culture, and place, as you observe. Interesting thing, though: the questions stay the same. Wherever you find human beings, you find the same questions.The questions may be our best clue. We are the creatures who want it to mean something. We are the creatures who ask.
How do you find meaning in what you do? I love. I love what I experience, what I do, what I create, what I share... and the people I share it with. We are here only a brief time. But brief does not mean insignificant. Beauties glow brightest when we know tomorrow they will be gone.It is when something we love is leaving us, even as we embrace it, that it appears most precious. And everything is leaving.
And why do you think we are here? We are here because somebody got laid. It's not a bad reason. Not at all. Archer All species are transitional.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
prophex writes: I guess I have always been tied up in the system. why do you work at a grocery store, inside of the "system"? I have made some poor decisions in my financial life and I owe the system a good $42,000.00! Additionally, I have found no way---aside from living under a bridge and carrying a sign, of escaping the obligations of rent and bills. I dont mean to sound like a hypocritical idealist, but I am trapped in the system!
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ikabod Member (Idle past 4493 days) Posts: 365 From: UK Joined: |
all hail the mighty Kuresu overlord of the universe
, btw as your here boss i have a list of faults that you need to fix , lets start with the a's and work our way through , there are only 23 pages of a's then we can move on to the b's , there is more of them ....... oh the freedom of power . . . . .
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ikabod Member (Idle past 4493 days) Posts: 365 From: UK Joined: |
very nice poem , but i must say i do not agree with all its statement s , i think good and evil , in real sense are different , and many of the other are perceptions , not actuals ...
but i guess that would be very off topic so ill stop there
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3598 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
ikabod:
very nice poem , but i must say i do not agree with all its statement s , i think good and evil , in real sense are different , and many of the other are perceptions , not actuals ... That line of translation is a bit misleading for many English speakers. The Tao Te Ching, like Eastern thought generally, does not postulate 'good and evil' to mean anything like 'righteousness and sin.' It means the good things and bad ('evil') things that come to you in life. Another philosopher, Chuang Tsu, illustrated this with a famous story: A farmer lives alone, with only his teenaged son and a horse for company. One day the horse jumps over the fence and escapes. The farmer's neighbors say 'Oh, what a terrible thing has happened!' The farmer says 'Who knows if it is a terrible thing? We will see.' A month later the horse jumps back over the fence--with six other horses it picked up in its travels. The farmer's neighbors say 'Oh, what a good thing has happened!' The farmer says 'Who knows if it is a good thing? We will see.' A month later the farmer's son is riding one of the new horses. The horse throws him. The son is injured in a way that paralyzes him from the waist down. The farmer's neighbors say 'Oh, what a terrible thing has happened!' The farmer says 'Who knows if it is a terrible thing? We will see.' A month later a war starts. All the physically able young men in the region are drafted into the army. The war goes badly and all of them are killed. Only the farmer's son, because of his disqualifying injury, survives. Edited by Archer Opterix, : Corrected typo. Archer All species are transitional.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5820 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
I think I love Archer...
Let me say this is a pretty cool thread and people from all walks have provided interesting material. I will not provide direct answers here as I feel my responses will be more clunky than anything written so far, and I like what I see by others anyway. My "position" would be a hybrid between Archer's and Ben's answers. Both of whom I find I admire. I may be wrong but it seems we are all a bit influenced by Taoism. Archer's beautiful and clear prose has so far (across threads) been greatly inspiring to me. holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode} "What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
The true freedom that you desire, can not exist on this planet. We are slaves to the planet. Take away all the political BS, and everyone that exists around you, and you think you are free?
You would have to grow, and hunt your own food, and struggle to survive. You would be a slave to sickness and desease that would otherwise be easily curable. You would not be able to experience love. The kind of freedom you are thinking of could only exist by yourself, or in heaven, yet you desire this freedom co-existing with other people. Our current nation is the by-product of freedom. The fact that we can walk into a supermarket and buy just about any kind of food we want, instead of laboring to grow our own, is a freedom expressed through society. Think of all the benifits that we get to enjoy because of our freedom. But we must work to attain them. All the things you think are your freedoms being taken away from you are actually the bu-products of those very freedoms, compounded by living with others on this earth. True freedom can only exist in your mind, and is very subjective. Jesus said, once you know the truth, then the truth will set you free. What did He mean by that? Maybe your answer exist in His words.
True freedom would also mean that there would be no economic systems, because there would be no need for money, no need for primitive currencies to buy and sell, all of which limits the freedoms of the people, forced to use the system constructed or be a hopeless starving wanderer. Russia thought what they were doing was exactly this. It's funny because I just did a job for a guy who came from Russia 12 years ago, and he was describing what it was like to live there. He said there was very little, if none at all, classifications of people, and that if you were "poor, or rich" you both went to the same school. Everything is taken care of for you. There are no starving people. But then there is the black market, a product of free thinking. We examined the propaganda here in the USA, and how things are packaged for us, then presented to us through the media. We are brain washed so that all a politician has to do is push the right buttons to get us to respond. The cartoons my kids watch are completely stupid, and full of ideas, and moral teachings that I do not wish to have them learn. I am sure Bugs Bunny was a pre curser to all this, as innocent as Bugs Bunny seems to me. It's ok for my kids to play with ug-gi-oh cards and summon demons, yet it's not ok for them to worship God. We celebrate Santa-Claus, not Jesus on Christmas. All this is not an absolute, but just an observation of how things are. There is truth in it. There is truth in what you notice, about freedom.
This thread started with "true freedom", but I feel that true freedom only exists outside what we see in the physical world, and is only present within our minds. Freedom is in transcending what is real, as did Siddhartha, and Christ. The only valid purpose that one can speak of, a purpose with any meaning at all is a purpose that Christ spoke of, to love the rest of your kind in this absurd existance. Because there is nothing else that is good and righteous to live for. Let us seek this freedom called truth, for nothing in this existance can ever be meaningful except for knowing why. Knowing why we are here, and why we exist. That's true freedom. So I guess we agree.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I can tell you human history in a few sentences. Who said anything about Human History. I am speaking of history of a human. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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iano Member (Idle past 1941 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Why were we created by God? So he could love us and we could love him, I suspect (although the true answer probably has more facets to it than this). Similar, although not the same as, us having children (in the 'noblest' sense). Children happen when love happens. They are a product of love.
The question is the most important question ever asked. The most complex question ever asked. I disagree. I think the most important question ever asked is "Does God exist?" It is an incredibly complex question (were it to remain couched in that way). A long history of failing to arrive at definitive, objective (to all) conclusions demonstrates I think, the impossibility that man ever shall shall arrive at such an answer in the future. We have had opportunity enough. Now if it were couched differently then a man might well get somewhere. A good way to reframe the question (for it also re-frames the approach) would be: "God - do you exist?" Edited by iano, : add 'not' above Edited by iano, : No reason given.
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2513 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
The true freedom that you desire, can not exist on this planet As I stated earlier in this thread, that idea is very platonic. The idea of the ideal and then, this imperfect world.very influential in christian (and judaism and islam) philosophy. however, the ideal is not subjective. It is the perfect form that we all will know. Or at least, I do not think it's subjective. Reason being, the idea of subjective and objective was created after Plato--by aristotle, and I do believe that the two argued over whether ob/sub was real. As we can see, Aristotle won out. Interesting how western philosophy is mixed between those two figures more than any other person in recorded history. yes--western ideas are based more off of these two than even jesus. after all, he had to pull this line from somewhere once you know the truth, then the truth will set you free to me, that sounds an awful like Plato's cave analogy. All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2513 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
God - do you exist?" you know, I asked him that once. I still haven't gotten a reply. Maybe he's too busy answering your all's prayers? All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
You mean like an innate talent that you never got to develop because of the turns of life, but then finally get to practice? That's what I was thinking of, yes.
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iano Member (Idle past 1941 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
you know, I asked him that once I take it you pursued (or will pursue) your wife/husband/job/hobbies et al with a little more gusto than that. Like I said, posing it that way reframes the approach. Make love to the question so posed - don't go for a quickie against the parking lot wall. A chap from industry came into give us 3rd year engineering students a lecture on life in the real world. He asked us to think for a minute and come up with a novel type of lawnmower. One chap down the back piped up after 10 seconds or so "gentically modify grass to grow at normal rates in the beginning, then get it to slow right down for the rest of the time. Get rid of the need for a novel lawnmower" The industrialist pondered this for a moment and responded: "I would like you, Sir, to join my company whenever you have finished your education" Think laterally Edited by iano, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
iano writes: Think laterally Doesn't hurt to be a Bible lateralist either. (Ever read anything by Edward de Bono?) Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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iano Member (Idle past 1941 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Doesn't hurt to be a Bible lateralist either. Certainly not. Far better than being a Bible Contortionist, Delusionalist, Illusionist...or even more Alice-in-Wonderlandingly; an a-la-carte Bible Liberalist. ("I'll have Mark to start, Matthew for main course (medium rare). I'll skip Luke and (cos he wasn't there). You can put John in a doggy bag - thanks. Oh! and regarding allergens - there's no Paul in any of this, is there?)
(Ever read anything by Edward de Bono?) Never 'eard of 'em m8. Ever listened to U2's Bono?
Album "How to dismantle an atomic bomb" Track: "Yahweh" Take these shoesClick clacking down some dead end street Take these shoes And make them fit Take this shirt Polyester white trash made in nowhere Take this shirt And make it clean, clean Take this soul Stranded in some skin and bones Take this soul And make it sing Yahweh, YahwehAlways pain before a child is born (et tu Bono, et tu?) Yahweh, Yahweh Still I'm waiting for the dawn Take these handsTeach them what to carry Take these hands Don't make a fist Take this mouth So quick to criticise (*blush*) Take this mouth Give it a kiss Yahweh, YahwehAlways pain before a child is born Yahweh, Yahweh Still I'm waiting for the dawn Still waiting for the dawn, the sun is coming upThe sun is coming up on the ocean This love is like a drop in the ocean (understatement: not usually Bono's strongpoint) This love is like a drop in the ocean Yahweh, YahwehAlways pain before a child is born Yahweh, tell me now Why the dark before the dawn? (C'mon Bono - that's easy) Take this cityA city should be shining on a hill Take this city If it be your will What no man can own, no man can take Take this heart Take this heart Take this heart And make it break Edited by iano, : No reason given.
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