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Author Topic:   How Likely Is It Jesus' Got Married
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5622
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 76 of 109 (320113)
06-10-2006 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by ringo
06-10-2006 3:37 PM


Bilbo
Bilbo appears in person in The Fellowship of the Ring. Need I quote chapter and verse?

Whoa, wait a minute.... First you say that Jesus did not even exist, now you're telling me that Bilbo Baggins didn't either? If Bilbo didn't exist either, then who wrote, "A Hobbits Tale: There and back, by Bilbo Baggins."

Sheesh!

:D


“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
–1st Peter 3:15
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ringo
Member
Posts: 16362
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 77 of 109 (320132)
06-10-2006 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Hyroglyphx
06-10-2006 6:46 PM


Re: Bilbo
nemesis_juggernaut writes:

First you say that Jesus did not even exist, now you're telling me that Bilbo Baggins didn't either?

I didn't say that. I said that both have approximately equal historical support.


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This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 78 of 109 (343538)
08-26-2006 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Hyroglyphx
05-30-2006 11:05 PM


Re: Cosmic implications
nemesis writes:

His virginity has nothing to do with His holiness or lack thereof.

Jesus from an early age expressed that He was about His Father's business.

Getting married and having little chitlins was not a part of the program.

Jesus existed for one, central purpose - and that purpose is to reveal Himself as the Messiah and to become the sacrificial Lamb to cover sin in the penitent man/woman.

Having a typical life did not fit into the parameter of His purpose.

Yes. He was not just an ordinary Rabbi.

Ringo writes:

... if Jesus was truly human, He certainly would feel a need to "have communion with a woman".

Im truly human, and yet feel no need to get married. Heck, even communion with a woman is a challenge! :rolleyes:

Some say that Jesus was fully human just as we are. I would assert that Jesus was fully human yet was fully in communion with God, which no human that I have ever met is.

Jesus was so fully devoted to His Bride....which includes all of us...that He would have no time to focus on but one significant other.


“There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way” --C.S.Lewis

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ringo
Member
Posts: 16362
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 79 of 109 (343554)
08-26-2006 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Phat
08-26-2006 9:05 AM


Re: Cosmic implications
Phat writes:

Ringo writes:
... if Jesus was truly human, He certainly would feel a need to "have communion with a woman".

Heck, even communion with a woman is a challenge!

Exactly. If Jesus never faced that challenge, how could He be "fully human"?

By the way, you do know that "communion with a woman" is a euphemism, don't you? :)

Jesus was so fully devoted to His Bride....which includes all of us...that He would have no time to focus on but one significant other.

And yet He had time to go to weddings, go fishing, etc.
You seem to have a low opinion of His multitasking skills. :)

Personally, I think the idea that Jesus never "consorted" with women (another euphemism) is very misogynistic. Why else would the idea of Him touching a woman seem "dirty"?

You might as well suggest that He never went to the bathroom.

Edited by Ringo, : Spellling.


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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1708 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 80 of 109 (343562)
08-26-2006 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by ringo
08-26-2006 10:57 AM


Re: Cosmic implications
Whether Jesus married or not...
if it sells paperbacks and popcorn, we're sure to hear more about it.

:(


Archer
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2104 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 81 of 109 (343790)
08-26-2006 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Hyroglyphx
06-10-2006 2:26 PM


Where`s the gossip?
Furthermore, given the fact that hardly any ancient documents survive decay, that a multitude of early Christian and secular sources should have survived is miraculous even by naturalistic standards.

Close to a thousand manuscripts written by an obscure sect survived from roughly the same time period. Odd how the more numerous Christian body failed to deliver. Too many missing periods in Jesus` life. Nothing on the deaths of the giants, Peter and Paul. Nothing on the subsequent proselytising and deaths of the apostles. Contradictions galore in the Gospels. Even the Jewish authorities thought it of so little moment, they couldn`t be bothered putting pen to papyrus. All those miracles and only the Christians noticed?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-10-2006 2:26 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

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U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 3063 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005


Message 82 of 109 (344243)
08-28-2006 10:16 AM


Double Standards?
I wonder if the same uproar occurred when people started portraying Jesus as a pale European. That certainly wasn't in the Bible....


"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine
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Brian
Member (Idle past 3069 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 83 of 109 (344306)
08-28-2006 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Hyroglyphx
05-30-2006 11:05 PM


Jesus needed to have children
Getting married and having little chitlins was not apart of the program.

I would hazard a guess that this is your personal opinion because it certainly isn't stated in the Bible.

In fact, if Jesus was the fulfillment of the 'Suffering Servant' of Isaiah's Servant Songs (as Xians claim He is), then Jesus would have HAD to be a daddy.

The servant would live to see his offspring:

Isaiah 53:10

Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

The 'offspring' referred to here is actual children, and not the metaphorical 'children' that Christians claim it means.

Zerah, which is used for offsrping here, is never used metaphorically in the Hebrew Bible.

So, Jesus would need to have had real children if He was the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 as Christians cliam he was.

However, there are another two huge problems trying to fit Jesus into Isaiah 53. One is his fairly short life, it certainly wasn't a prolonged life as the servant was blessed with. Oh, it is an extended physical life as well, not some spiritual hocus pocus.

The second, and biggest problem, is that Isaiah 53 is not even messianic.

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 16362
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 84 of 109 (344324)
08-28-2006 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by U can call me Cookie
08-28-2006 10:16 AM


Re: Double Standards?
U can call me Cookie writes:

I wonder if the same uproar occurred when people started portraying Jesus as a pale European.

I don't know, but there certainly is an uproar every time He is portrayed as an African. ;)

I would think if anybody ever represented Everyman, it should be Jesus. (And Everyman has children.)


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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2104 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 85 of 109 (344469)
08-28-2006 9:15 PM


All meat and no potatoes
Dunno, with the present neurotic Christian preoccupation with sex (homophobia, abortion, birth control, celibacy, etc.), and digesting all that blood and bikkies in their ceremonies, there has to be a reluctance to give Jesus any qualities of the flesh. Contradicted by the fascination with a tortured body hanging on a cross. Ah, the wonderful world of the believer.
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Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 86 of 109 (344530)
08-28-2006 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by ringo
08-28-2006 2:35 PM


Re: Double Standards?
Ringo writes:

I would think if anybody ever represented Everyman, it should be Jesus. (And Everyman has children.)

OH! So a guy who doesnt choose to get married or have kids is somehow less?

That smacks of bias, if anything does!


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Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 87 of 109 (344532)
08-28-2006 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Nighttrain
08-28-2006 9:15 PM


Re: All meat and no potatoes
nighttrain writes:

there has to be a reluctance to give Jesus any qualities of the flesh.

well, maybe we should let the pagan fertility cults have their way!

Oh yeah! Sex is normal...the more the better. Preoccupation with pleasure for pleasures sake! Heathens!


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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5622
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 88 of 109 (344549)
08-29-2006 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by U can call me Cookie
08-28-2006 10:16 AM


Re: Double Standards?
I wonder if the same uproar occurred when people started portraying Jesus as a pale European. That certainly wasn't in the Bible....

I don't like the blonde haired, blue-eyed version of Jesus for the same reason I don't like Negro Jesus-- both are counterintuitive. The Scriptures say that there was nothing in Jesus that people could physically see that would make us look at Him any differently from the common Jew walking around in the marketplaces of Jerusalem. Yeshua probably looked like most Jews back then: olive skin, brown eyes, brown hair, etc. He probably looked like your average 1st century Jew.


“It is in vain, O' man, that you seek within yourselves the cure for all your miseries. All your insight has led you to the knowledge that it is not in yourselves that you will discover the true and the good.” -Blaise Pascal
This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 16362
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 89 of 109 (344578)
08-29-2006 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Phat
08-28-2006 11:29 PM


Re: Double Standards?
Phat writes:

So a guy who doesnt choose to get married or have kids is somehow less?

Not less of a person or less of a man. But less representative of the human race.

(Psst... that's what "Everyman" means, not "every man".)


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This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 90 of 109 (344596)
08-29-2006 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by ringo
08-29-2006 12:53 AM


Re: Double Standards?
Thats what Jesus is, though. An anomoly. He is not representative of the human race, for the human race is imperfect and fallen.

I think that Jesus never having been married or even of having relations with anyone is quite likely. The church didnt just dream that up.

You have to quit believing these liberal scholars at these Jesus seminars without a clue as to the workings of the Holy Spirit. They are simply extrapolating their intellectual void.


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