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Author Topic:   jar - On Christianity
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 307 (344769)
08-29-2006 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by ringo
08-29-2006 2:48 PM


Re: Biblical tone
Otherwise, some bozo would think you meant literal wailing and gnashing of teeth. It's too bad that some people can't recognize humour unless it has big neon lights flashing "HUMOUR ---->".
I hear that.
"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by ringo, posted 08-29-2006 2:48 PM ringo has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 307 (344795)
08-29-2006 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by jar
08-29-2006 3:34 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
GOD sent us the message that we all start out saved. Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Taoist, Satanist, Wiccan, Buddhist, or Anamist, all start even. When you die though you will be judged. And you will be judged individually, uniquely, against yourself. Did you try to do what is right and not do what is wrong?
How does Jesus Christ fit into your version of Christianity? What's his function?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 3:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 4:51 PM robinrohan has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 307 (344804)
08-29-2006 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by jar
08-29-2006 4:38 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
I think GOD does judge what is right and wrong, just that there is no absolute
This makes no sense unless you are claiming that God is just giving his subjective opinion and that He might very well be wrong.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 4:38 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 5:28 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 307 (344805)
08-29-2006 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by ringo
08-29-2006 5:07 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
He needed to start at the bottom to establish his creds.
I guess that's the point of the crucifixion rather than just dying of a heart attack or something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by ringo, posted 08-29-2006 5:07 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by ringo, posted 08-29-2006 5:22 PM robinrohan has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 307 (344809)
08-29-2006 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by jar
08-29-2006 5:20 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
I see everything as GOD teaching us a lesson. Here is HUMAN. Here is LOVING. Here is ANGER. Here is TRUST. Here is VISION. Here is FAITH. Here is LIFE.
So the authors of the New Testament were wrong from the beginning (about the "He-died-for-our-sins" concept)?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 5:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 5:34 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 307 (344813)
08-29-2006 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by jar
08-29-2006 5:28 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
There is no absolute standard.
There is if God is absolutely right in His judgment of us.

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 Message 92 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 5:28 PM jar has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 307 (344816)
08-29-2006 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by jar
08-29-2006 5:34 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
I never got the "he died for our sins" message from reading the Bible. GOD forgives sin.
I thought they mentioned that in the Bible a lot--that He died for our sins.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 5:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 5:39 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 99 of 307 (344824)
08-29-2006 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by jar
08-29-2006 5:39 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
And even if they did, it is simply silly.
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
1John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins.
So the authors were wrong about him from the beginning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 5:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 5:59 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 307 (344834)
08-29-2006 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by jar
08-29-2006 5:59 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
The fireman that devotes his life to saving folks gives his blood sweat and tears.
The fireman is not "propitiating," however. That means to conciliate an offended powerful agent--i.e., God.
So these authors who lived around 60-100 AD, who grew up in the same culture that Jesus did, who perhaps knew people who knew Him, got him wrong, whereas you, living 2000 years later, in an extremely different culture, mindset, different language, different associations, etc., got him right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 5:59 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 6:20 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 08-29-2006 6:40 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 307 (344839)
08-29-2006 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by jar
08-29-2006 6:20 PM


Re: Better here than philadelphia
Got no idea if I have it right or not. Said that many times. All I can tell you is what I believe and lay out why I believe it.
What a cop-out!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 08-29-2006 6:20 PM jar has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 141 of 307 (344997)
08-30-2006 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Faith
08-29-2006 6:40 PM


Re: aside on dating the NT
I guess you buy the idea that it wasn't eyewitnesses, Jesus' actual disciples, who wrote the New Testament?
I'm not sure, but what I wrote would have been the authors' minimal familiarity. Then Jar says, "That's just what I believe, blah, blah, blah . . . I may be wrong, blah, blah, blah. "
Jar "believes" that he understands Jesus' message better than those who lived in that era, in that culture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 08-29-2006 6:40 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 1:14 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 142 of 307 (344998)
08-30-2006 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by Archer Opteryx
08-30-2006 6:34 AM


Re: fanfare for the common man
Not common enough, I'd say.
Yeah, it's real "nice."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Archer Opteryx, posted 08-30-2006 6:34 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 307 (345057)
08-30-2006 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by ringo
08-30-2006 1:14 PM


Those who lived in that era, in that culture crucified Jesus. How "understanding" is that
I mean whoever wrote the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 1:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 2:02 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 148 of 307 (345078)
08-30-2006 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by ringo
08-30-2006 2:02 PM


The Lens of Time
Except in some special case, where there is a secret agenda which is later exposed, we understand less and less about a person's intentions
as the years accumulate. His contemporaries and those who were his near-contemporaries understood Jesus' utterances and actions far better than we can because they were much more aware of the context of his remarks, the references he made which are lost on us, the traditions, the laws, and so on.
To give an example, Brian's thread on the incident with Barrabas is intended to painstakingly investigate what would have been well-known to anyone who lived in that time and in that area. Brian can only conclude that it was "highly unlikely" that such a tradition existed. A contemporary would have known for certain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 2:02 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by robinrohan, posted 08-30-2006 3:12 PM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 151 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 5:05 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 152 by iano, posted 08-30-2006 5:23 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 149 of 307 (345082)
08-30-2006 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by robinrohan
08-30-2006 2:57 PM


Re: The Lens of Time
What, after all, are we to do with such passages as this?
Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed [it], and brake [it], and gave [it] to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Jesus seems to be saying he's paying for sins with the shedding of his blood. Jar wants to ignore such passages because it doesn't make sense to him. He wants to "modernize" the ideas so that it WILL make sense to him. He turns Jesus into a good-humored party-going liberal suburbanite who thinks we "have to learn to love ourselves"--ideas straight out of modern pop culture.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by robinrohan, posted 08-30-2006 2:57 PM robinrohan has not replied

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