Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   True Freedom
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 136 of 300 (345055)
08-30-2006 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Trump won
08-30-2006 1:16 PM


Re: Dear less advantaged men and women of this board.
I will take a guess that his credentials are of higher standing than your own and if not then it is only because of his age. Time and opportunity alone.
It's fine for you to say that as I will show later in this post.
However do not underestimate the value of time and opportunity. Also do not discount failure, it is one of the most important things one can do, but unfortunately, it does require both time and opportunity to fail sufficiently. You and Charlie simply have not had enough time or opportunities to have failed enough for it to be of value.
Jesus Christ said:
"Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
But we do follow that teaching Chris, we suffer you and Charlie and do not hinder you.
Edited by jar, : No reason given.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Trump won, posted 08-30-2006 1:16 PM Trump won has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 137 of 300 (345090)
08-30-2006 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Trump won
08-30-2006 1:16 PM


Re: Dear less advantaged men and women of this board.
hey man, I'm about your all's ages. As in, this is my third day of college, and I'm a little over halfway to nineteen.
so then, who has your brother, or you, read?
I'll give you my list--and keep in mind, I've not read every single work by all of these.
Socrates
Plato
Aristotle
Augustine (one of the founding fathers of the catholic church)
(can't remember the name, but a different founding father of the catholic church, several centuries after the "a" dude. And I know I got his name wrong)
Descarte
Locke
Berkeley
Hume
Kant
Nietzche
Russel
Persing
and at least ten more that I can't remember. but modern day philosophers.
oh, wait--I've read some of the enlightment era in the US--but don't know who or what.
I'm familiar with the ancient greek philosophers,
next semester, I should be taking a philosophy class or two.
oh, yeah
I've read works, not by philosophers, but that illuminate the philosophies of the time, or of those writing.
I've never read a greek or roman classic, but I've read several of the modern classics--Jane Eyre, Farewell to Arms, Grapes of Wrath, Great Gatsby, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, Their eyes were watching god, the Old Man and the Sea, Farenhight 451, 1984, The Power and the Glory, Siddhartha, Lord of the Rings (if it's not--it soon will be), Hamlet, Macbeth, and a few more I can't remember.
All I can say is this--if you were looking to find acceptance--you ain't gonna find it. Prophets aren't young for a reason. Messiahs for the same reason. You are being challenged, and all you two can offer is whining about how we don't get it, about how we're resisting.
Instead of doing that shit, challenge what we say. Show us why your shit is better, and how we're so stupid to not follow, if you two really do have a grasp on this. Not this whining crap.
It might be a tad presumptous, but I'd say, given our age similiarities, but you two really don't have a clue.

All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Trump won, posted 08-30-2006 1:16 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Trump won, posted 08-30-2006 5:20 PM kuresu has not replied
 Message 146 by Archer Opteryx, posted 08-30-2006 6:36 PM kuresu has replied
 Message 148 by Trump won, posted 08-30-2006 6:40 PM kuresu has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 138 of 300 (345111)
08-30-2006 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by joshua221
08-28-2006 7:49 PM


Re: Question to Evc
prophex writes:
I want to take my guitar, and go to California, but I would probably have a very hard time thriving.
Was I right in guessing that you have a case of waunderlust? That see the world feeling? Do you fear being trapped in a job like I am? If so, I hear ya!
prophex writes:
I can teach my teachers,
Phat writes:
I thought like that when I was 18
my one philosophy class feels like sunday school,
Phat writes:
actually im glad that you and CSP never turned into fundies
and I actually have to take my time and do homework for these people. Not only that, it's not what I want to be doing. I want to learn from the philosophers themselves, instead of having some muddled down version from a depressing individual who sees the world as capitalism.
Phat writes:
sounds like me!
Dang you! You are growing up, thats for sure! You are the opposite of me----I never wanted to leave home. Im satisfied in a stable routine (which some see as a rut and a trap) I can't see how the world will ever change, though. Human nature is too predictable.
That does not mean that change is not possible. It will take an earth shaking event like a major war or a depression to make it happen, though. IMHO, anyway.
Edited by Phat, : phat brain pharts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by joshua221, posted 08-28-2006 7:49 PM joshua221 has not replied

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 139 of 300 (345116)
08-30-2006 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by kuresu
08-30-2006 3:44 PM


Re: Dear less advantaged men and women of this board.
Sorry, I can't step down and provide a post lacking substance.
That's great you read, maybe you can incorporate the ideas of a few of these names into your posts.
I will be following up this post with a few more utilizing men I've read if you want a good idea.
Why people think I'm whining is funny.... I will address this point and more points stipulated by others here with literature from Sartre,
the work Existentialism.
I'm not one to create lists of names, I try to express ideas. You'll see who I read through my posts(hopefully) I hope you follow suit.
Actually, I have no idea what you are complaining about or talking about.
I will admit I was a little disturbed when you assumed I don't know who Augustine is. I believe in soul.
In future convey the ideas along with the names, if you want.
For example I'll pick a name from your list: Descartes. To make substance from this name you could discuss the mind-body problem from what he said in Meditations and maybe we could talk about if we agree with his dualist view of the mind and body. I would love a discussion such as this.
I'm sorry if I offended you.
sidenote(I was hesitant to say this):
3rd day of the fall semester for me, I attended summer courses also, I have two classes with other early admits they labelled "honors". Those replies were actually posted from there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by kuresu, posted 08-30-2006 3:44 PM kuresu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by CK, posted 08-30-2006 5:34 PM Trump won has replied
 Message 141 by jar, posted 08-30-2006 6:13 PM Trump won has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 140 of 300 (345121)
08-30-2006 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Trump won
08-30-2006 5:20 PM


Re: Dear less advantaged men and women of this board.
quote:
Sorry, I can't step down and provide a post lacking substance.
Wait, you provided a post with some substance? Which one was it?
quote:
Why people think I'm whining is funny
No it's the earnest, earnest nature we find funny - and I think the reason most of us find it funny is not because of you, but because I bet we can all remember one "groan" moment from our teenager years when we were equally as profound and earnest.
Edited by CK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Trump won, posted 08-30-2006 5:20 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Trump won, posted 08-30-2006 6:15 PM CK has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 141 of 300 (345142)
08-30-2006 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Trump won
08-30-2006 5:20 PM


Re: Dear less advantaged men and women of this board.
And René Descartes was a drunken fart.
'I drink, therefore I am.'
and thanks to Archer in Message 137...
Rene Descartes walks into McDonald's.
The perky kid behind the counter says 'May I take your order, sir?'
Descartes looks up at the menu and says 'I think I will have a Big Mac, and some French fries, and a vanilla shake.'
The perky kid says 'Would you like a hot apple pie with that, sir?'
Descartes says 'I think not'--and disappears.
and my personal favorite, the reply to an inviation to the Scientists Ball:
Boyle said he was under too much pressure.
Edison thought it would be an illuminating experience.
Watt reckoned it would be a good way to let off steam.
Stephenson thought the whole idea was loco.
Wilbur Wright said he'd take a flier on it.
Dr Jekyll declined-- he hadn't been feeling himself lately.
Morse replied: "I'll be there on the dot. Can't stop now - must dash."
Heisenberg was uncertain if he could make it.
Hertz said in the future he planned to attend with greater frequency.
Henry begged off due to a low capacity for alcohol.
Audobon said he'd have to wing it.
Hawking said he'd try to string enough time together to make a space in his schedule.
Darwin said he'd have to see what evolved.
Schrodinger had to take his cat to the vet, or did he?
Mendel said he'd put some things together and see what came out.
Descartes said he'd think about it.
Newton was moved to attend.
Pavlov was drooling at the thought.
Gauss was asked to attend because of his magnetic personality.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Trump won, posted 08-30-2006 5:20 PM Trump won has not replied

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 142 of 300 (345143)
08-30-2006 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Archer Opteryx
08-28-2006 10:37 PM


reply
quote:
You talk about freedom, but you really want people to think the things you say to think and do the things you say to do. You are angry when they disobey orders. You are intolerant of dissent. You would persecute them if you had the power.
Before I begin, I find it necessary to address this point. I openly admit frustration towards the human condition. But the type of anger you imply is not true of me. You said
You would persecute them if you had the power
I am insulted at this assertion. You must not pay attention to my posts.
I've written: An argument for altruism
I would never harm another human being. I believe human life is sacred. Your assertion stands in direct contrast to my beliefs and actions. Please retract this statement.
It's not anyone's fault that they are caught up on trivialities, it's all most know, it's all most are taught, who am I to persecute another? I would infringe upon one's natural rights(Rousseau), I would not have a sociologically sound mind, I would hurt myself for we are but ONE but most importantly I would hurt a human being, another in this experience, I would take one's freedom, one's self-determination(Mill, Wilson).
You assert that I want everyone to do as I say. Being able to have everyone do as I do is the mark of a sound philosophy.
Jean-Paul Sartre speaks of this very thing in his work Existentialism (his first major work translated into english):
quote:
If on the otherhand, existence precedes essence, and if we grant that we exist and fashion our image at one and the same time, the image is valid for everybody and for our whole age. Thus, our responsibility is much greater than we might have supposed, because it involves all mankind. If I am a workingman and choose to join a Christian trade-union rather than be a communist, and if by being a member I want to show that the best thing for man is resignation, that the kingdom of man is not of this world, I am not only involving my own case-I want ot be resigned for everyone. As a result, my action has involved all of humanity.
he continues later on
quote:
But really, one should always ask himself, "What would happen if everybody looked at things that way?"
To move on..... before you attempted to justify your existence in your passion, your love. Kierkegaard wrote in
Either/Or
What is youth but a dream? And love the substance of that dream.
I believe man is free an it is a part of an a priori knowledge and if would excuse me I must go finish up a song. My time has been limited these days unfortuantely.
Edited by -messenjah of one, : "intentionally"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Archer Opteryx, posted 08-28-2006 10:37 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 6:33 PM Trump won has replied
 Message 159 by Archer Opteryx, posted 08-30-2006 8:50 PM Trump won has not replied

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 143 of 300 (345148)
08-30-2006 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by CK
08-30-2006 5:34 PM


Re: Dear less advantaged men and women of this board.
I'm interested in your reply to my query about your service. I hope you're insulted by my even asking the question.
Edited by -messenjah of one, : grammar

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by CK, posted 08-30-2006 5:34 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by CK, posted 08-30-2006 6:26 PM Trump won has replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 144 of 300 (345155)
08-30-2006 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Trump won
08-30-2006 6:15 PM


Re: Dear less advantaged men and women of this board.
quote:
I hope you're insulted by my even asking the question.
What a strange question! why would I be insulted or more interestingly - why would you perceive that I would be insulted?
Since I joined, of course the answer is yes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Trump won, posted 08-30-2006 6:15 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Trump won, posted 08-30-2006 6:46 PM CK has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 145 of 300 (345157)
08-30-2006 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Trump won
08-30-2006 6:13 PM


-messenjah of one writes:
I would never harm another human being intentionally.
People who say that usually don't understand the consequences of their actions.
Whether you intend to do harm, or whether you unintentionally cause harm, the harm is the same.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Trump won, posted 08-30-2006 6:13 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Trump won, posted 08-30-2006 6:37 PM ringo has replied

Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 146 of 300 (345160)
08-30-2006 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by kuresu
08-30-2006 3:44 PM


Re: Dear less advantaged men and women of this board.
I'll give you my list--and keep in mind, I've not read every single work by all of these.
Impressive list, kuresu.
Just out of curiosity--who are your favorites so far?

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by kuresu, posted 08-30-2006 3:44 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by kuresu, posted 08-30-2006 9:41 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 147 of 300 (345161)
08-30-2006 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by ringo
08-30-2006 6:33 PM


You are correct. I agree 100%. I am not sure why I worded it that way.
For example: I no longer speed for every action has a consequence.
I am ashamed for saying that, it goes against my beliefs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 6:33 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 6:45 PM Trump won has not replied
 Message 151 by CK, posted 08-30-2006 6:50 PM Trump won has not replied

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 148 of 300 (345162)
08-30-2006 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by kuresu
08-30-2006 3:44 PM


Re: Dear less advantaged men and women of this board.
I must admit that I had originally thought you said you've read every work by each person you mentioned and I had reasoned that you should be incorporating those ideas in then!, though my reply is still valid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by kuresu, posted 08-30-2006 3:44 PM kuresu has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 149 of 300 (345164)
08-30-2006 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Trump won
08-30-2006 6:37 PM


-messenjah of one writes:
I am not sure why I worded it that way.
It just goes to show how easy it is to screw up. In this case, luckily, no harm done.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Trump won, posted 08-30-2006 6:37 PM Trump won has not replied

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 150 of 300 (345165)
08-30-2006 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by CK
08-30-2006 6:26 PM


Re: Dear less advantaged men and women of this board.
quote:
Since I joined, of course the answer is yes.
Why? Do you not understand the sociological factors involved in you killing another man at the very least? I thought you may have been a Nathaniel Fick type...
Edited by -messenjah of one, : fick comment

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by CK, posted 08-30-2006 6:26 PM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by jar, posted 08-30-2006 6:54 PM Trump won has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024