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Author Topic:   Political Dimensions
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 26 of 63 (343968)
08-27-2006 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lykaios
08-26-2006 12:54 AM


fake "dimensions"
welcome to the fray Lykaios.
Your scores:
Radicalism: 83 percent
Tenderness: 35 percent
Socialism: 90 percent
These scores indicate that you are a tough-minded radical; this is the political profile one might associate with a liberated atheist. It appears that you are cynical towards religion, and have a balanced attitude towards humanity in general.
To round out the picture, your attitudes towards economics appear socialist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as left-wing.
Now lets talk about the inherent bias towards christianity in the survey, complete with the leading questions regarding judaism and the total lack of any other religious views being included, and questions on a lot of "hot-button" fundamentalists issues.
ie -- non-christian == atheist?
34) Conscientious objectors are traitors to their country, and should be treated accordingly.
As a concientious objector during the vietnam war I am personally insulted by this question. This also gratuitously paints all Amish people as traitors.
49) There is no harm in traveling occasionally without a ticket, if you can get away with it.
Seeing as you can travel to many IF NOT MOST places without being able to GET a ticket for it, to say nothing of being able to "get away with it" when NOT getting one -- and it's associated implications of wilfull wrongdoing -- this question makes no sense when you think about it.
60) The practical man is of more use to society than the thinker.
And of course you can't possibly be both a thinking person and a practical person. This certainly is the implication of many of these "questionable questions" imh(ysa)o.
Secondly, attitudes vary along a tough/tender axis, which appears to distinguish between realistic and pragmatic vs idealistic and trusting individuals.
realistic and pragmatic = tough?
idealistic and trusting = tender?
You can be 83% radical AND 90% socialist AND NOT idealistic? LOL
Something wrong there eh?
... while tough-minded radicals are individualistic and secularist, supporting sexual freedom and believing in evolution. On the tender side, tender-minded conservatives were found to be religious and moralistic, supporting censorship and belief in God, ...
Excuse me? supporting individual freedom is not idealistic, it's pragmatic and realistic? Better tell the conservatives eh?
and the "and believing in evolution" crock comes from where? It's science, folks, not some arcane religion.
Supporting censorship and imposing religious doctrines on others is tender???
Lykaios writes:
... dimensions of political values which appear to underlie differences in people's acceptance of evolution vs. creationism, ...
Or perhaps we should substitute "thinking" and "unthinking" for liberal and conservative in this "analysis" as it could be closer to what is really evaluated.
Or you'll have to put me down as too capable of rational thought to ever be a conservative, which is what this "survey" seems to say.
Garbage of very little real dimensional value, imh(ysa)o.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : tyop
Edited by RAZD, : subtitle

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lykaios, posted 08-26-2006 12:54 AM Lykaios has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by jar, posted 08-27-2006 2:31 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 32 by Lykaios, posted 08-28-2006 1:14 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 27 of 63 (343969)
08-27-2006 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Lykaios
08-27-2006 4:58 AM


Re: Crazy
Just so! It's unfortunate that the programmers don't seem to have the time or interest required to provide the insane, illiterate, and generally bored with more appropriate results.
Or, it doesn't fit the political agenda of the survey.

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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 29 of 63 (343984)
08-27-2006 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by jar
08-27-2006 2:31 PM


Re: fake "dimensions"
A quick google:
Hans Jrgen Eysenck, Ph.D., D.Sc. (1916-1997)
this survey is certainly not his, it has nothing to do with the two "dimension" he used according to:
Hans Eysenck
something is bogus.

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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 37 of 63 (344465)
08-28-2006 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Lykaios
08-28-2006 1:14 AM


Re: fake "dimensions"
From wikipedia:
finding two factors, the first of which was easily identified as the classical "left-right" dimension, and the second of which he labeled as "tough-mindedness" versus "tender-mindedness.
Leaving aside the fact that wikipedia can be edited, especially by those with an interest in the topic ...
... Scrolling to the bottom will take you to Eysenck's old test, ... although some efforts have been made to revise the test to bring it more up to date and introduce items that load on the third (S) factor, ...
This does not stop the original questionaire from being bogus, as noted on what "tough\tender" involved, but it certainly proves my point that the on-line test was not his, as it has this "third (S) factor" thanks.
Thank you, but now I think I'll leave. I was hoping to test, informally, whether the original finding (which is by now almost a century out of date) that acceptance of evolution was a tough, radical value, and also to see whether the modified test was well balanced regarding the T dimension, but I think I've learned all that I can on this board. I never had any intention of entering any "fray," and while there were a few posters whom I found both reasonable and pleasant, by and large it has been a long time since I found myself in company so obnoxious.
In otherwords, cut and run eh? Claim victory and gallop into the sunset? And never forget a parting ad hominum just for good measure. Don't let the door hit you.
... the items were not originally worded even by Eysenck himself but instead were "selected from speeches, books, newspapers, and other sources" ...
This makes them any less bogus how? How does this make the questions even relevant to today? 1956 ... coming out from under the cloud of McCarthyism but still well before civil rights.
Note that the Amish (among many others) were given CO status IN BULK during the second world war. Do you think it is NOT OBNOXIOUS to portray them as traitors?
Do you think the questions regarding the jews were not predicated on anti-semitism? Do you find the implication of rampant anti-semitism in todays society NOT OBNOXIOUS?
Sorry to burst your rosy little bubble, but if you want to think that you have found a holey grail for testing the political views of people today in a dated fifty year old work by all means enjoy it.
Just don't ask me to fall for it. I have more practical things to think about.
and btw, Lykaios:
.. it has been a long time since I found myself in company so obnoxious.
You made that bed.
But just to be clear: I found the test to be obnoxious and insulting -- if you take that as a personal attack then wear that shoe proudly.
And I'll just make one more comment: you have not defended the validity of the test in any way.
Enjoy.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Lykaios, posted 08-28-2006 1:14 AM Lykaios has not replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 51 of 63 (345174)
08-30-2006 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Wounded King
08-29-2006 3:13 AM


Re: I still prefer the political compass
Do you think Fred Phelps would be considered "tender" with this test?
I do think the political compass is more consistent (has it passed mod's test?)

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 60 of 63 (345874)
09-01-2006 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by jar
09-01-2006 5:43 PM


Re: libertarian
Anybody notice the range of scores that get this result:
These scores indicate that you are a tough-minded radical; this is the political profile one might associate with a liberated atheist. It appears that you are cynical towards religion, and have a balanced attitude towards humanity in general.
Seems rather broad to me.
They seem to be a pretty much nutcase group as seen in this quote:
seem?

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 09-01-2006 5:43 PM jar has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 62 of 63 (346001)
09-02-2006 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Ben!
09-02-2006 3:28 AM


Re: It's like I didn't even take the damn thing.
It's like I didn't even take the damn thing.
We are also beginning to collect enough responses to see that the spectrum of canned response phrases is limited.
One also wonders how descriptive phrases similar to
like a university professor
like a police officer
like a priest
are is describing people, given that each of these kinds of people can span the spectrum of human belief and behavior.
what use is a description that doesn't describe?

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
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