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Author Topic:   jar - On Christianity
iano
Member (Idle past 1212 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 166 of 307 (345186)
08-30-2006 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by robinrohan
08-30-2006 7:05 PM


Re: The Lens of Time
:)

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iano
Member (Idle past 1212 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 167 of 307 (345187)
08-30-2006 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by ringo
08-30-2006 7:06 PM


There might be a profundity in there somewhere but for the life of me..

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 168 of 307 (345188)
08-30-2006 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by iano
08-30-2006 7:05 PM


88.95

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 Message 164 by iano, posted 08-30-2006 7:05 PM iano has replied

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ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 169 of 307 (345189)
08-30-2006 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by robinrohan
08-30-2006 7:05 PM


Re: The Lens of Time
robinrohan writes:

Who are you addressing?

Oops. I was addressing iano forehandedly and you backhandedly.

Apparently, the forehand doesn't know what the backhand is doing.


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iano
Member (Idle past 1212 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 170 of 307 (345191)
08-30-2006 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by robinrohan
08-30-2006 7:09 PM


Curious. You defend him in opposite measure.

Night Robin. She'll be back shortly.

TTFN


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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 171 of 307 (345192)
08-30-2006 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by ringo
08-30-2006 7:03 PM


Re: The Lens of Time
Sure, Jesus' contemporaries knew more about their own culture and traditions than we do.
But we're talking about Jesus' philosophy.

Screw the concepts.

A philosophy generally contains concepts. The concepts provide the reasons for the practices.

But your posts and robin's posts don't ring true (to me and to some others around here) as coming from people who love themselves.

I can't speak for iano but loving myself comes very easily to me. I've always loved myself, and I always will. But it's not a merit, nor is it something I "learned." It just came naturally. The Biblical writers are right about that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 7:03 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by ringo, posted 08-30-2006 7:23 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 173 by iano, posted 08-30-2006 7:26 PM robinrohan has replied

ringo
Member
Posts: 19613
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 172 of 307 (345200)
08-30-2006 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by robinrohan
08-30-2006 7:15 PM


Re: The Lens of Time
robinrohan writes:

A philosophy generally contains concepts. The concepts provide the reasons for the practices.

But the concepts don't take precedence over the practices.
iano likes to confuse himself with concepts and pretend the practices are impractical.

I can't speak for iano but loving myself comes very easily to me. I've always loved myself, and I always will.

As I said, that's not the way you come across. (Maybe you just need more smilies.)

But it's not a merit, nor is it something I "learned."

Then maybe you should "learn" it. It seems to me you're doing it wrong. :)


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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

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iano
Member (Idle past 1212 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 173 of 307 (345203)
08-30-2006 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by robinrohan
08-30-2006 7:15 PM


Re: The Lens of Time
I can't speak for iano but loving myself comes very easily to me. I've always loved myself, and I always will. But it's not a merit, nor is it something I "learned." It just came naturally. The Biblical writers are right about that.

Self-love is like falling off a log for us all. If you cannot find one instance of Jesus loving himself (hint: "it's like looking for a needle in a stack of needles") how much would you knock off your "he was deluded" score. 10? 20?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by robinrohan, posted 08-30-2006 7:15 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by robinrohan, posted 08-30-2006 7:48 PM iano has taken no action

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 174 of 307 (345213)
08-30-2006 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by ringo
08-30-2006 7:23 PM


Re: The Lens of Time
As I said, that's not the way you come across.

I don't see why.

One problem I've noticed, however, is that some people--not myself, of course--love themselves a bit too much, which makes them unlovable to others. One must be judicious in one's self-love.


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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 175 of 307 (345216)
08-30-2006 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by iano
08-30-2006 7:26 PM


Re: The Lens of Time
If you cannot find one instance of Jesus loving himself (hint: "it's like looking for a needle in a stack of needles") how much would you knock off your "he was deluded" score. 10? 20?

"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air [have] nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay [his] head."

Due to his self-love, Jesus wanted a bed for the night.

Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 716 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 176 of 307 (345262)
08-30-2006 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by robinrohan
08-30-2006 7:01 PM


You've read CS's conundrum I'm sure. So which of his options do you plump for? Insane/liar/truth ...or other

He was deluded.

That's what makes the story so tragic.

So out of CS Lewis' choices you go for insane.

Well, I admit, claiming to be Yahweh God among the Jews would be rather crazy unless it were true, especially since it got Him killed.

And how do you account for the apparent sanity and realism of so many who follow Him? You quote some of them with appreciation, such as Samuel Johnson, Jonathan Edwards, William Law, Pascal. And in fact all of these believed in the whole supernatural package.

How do you account for the duration of His influence if He was deluded -- people believing in Him by growing millions in every generation for the last 2000 years, and even in our modern times in which the majority have rejected the very idea of the supernatural?

How do you account for the millions who have been and still are persecuted and even killed for believing him Him in Asia and Africa and the Middle East, refusing to repudiate their faith even for the sake of saving their lives?

I guess a sizeable portion of the world is deluded.

Well, that's OK, He told us that's how we would be viewed.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by robinrohan, posted 08-30-2006 7:01 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by kuresu, posted 08-30-2006 10:20 PM Faith has replied
 Message 182 by robinrohan, posted 08-30-2006 11:44 PM Faith has replied
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 1784 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 177 of 307 (345272)
08-30-2006 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Faith
08-30-2006 9:58 PM


was hitler deluded?
how many people followed hitler?
how many people still agree with hitler?

one need not be sane to have followers.
one can be insane and even have multitudes of followers.
surely you do not suggest that mohammed was sane? (knowing your opinion of muslims)(okay, that's almost, if not, a cheap shot at them, so just note--I don't have a problem with the religion, just some certain people in charge of a few certain countries)


All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Faith, posted 08-30-2006 9:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Faith, posted 08-30-2006 10:30 PM kuresu has taken no action
 Message 180 by robinrohan, posted 08-30-2006 11:28 PM kuresu has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 716 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 178 of 307 (345274)
08-30-2006 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by kuresu
08-30-2006 10:20 PM


I always forget about the ingenuity of the unbelievers.

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Replies to this message:
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anglagard
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 179 of 307 (345283)
08-30-2006 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Faith
08-30-2006 10:30 PM


Believers must be Vetted by Faith
I always forget about the ingenuity of the unbelievers.

Yeah, and I always remember the disingenuity of the fundies (aka Christian Taliban).


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider.
Sir Francis Bacon

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 180 of 307 (345294)
08-30-2006 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by kuresu
08-30-2006 10:20 PM


how many people still agree with hitler?

NOt many. Hitler is not a very good example.

ABE: The Buddha would be better.

Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by kuresu, posted 08-30-2006 10:20 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
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