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Author Topic:   Evolution as an Algorithm
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 31 of 74 (345392)
08-31-2006 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Woodsy
08-31-2006 7:05 AM


Re: Not an algorithm
Hi Woodsy.
If you are interested in what actually goes on in such a computer simulation, I recommend that you give DarwinBots a try.
It is an open source program built around hundreds (or thousands) of little "bots" that interact with each other to feed, fight reproduce and generally try to survive.
Each one has a "DNA" which is able to mutate due to various conditions during reproduction. The aim of the simulations is to see what happens when we change the physical conditions in the DarwinBots universe.

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 Message 21 by Woodsy, posted 08-31-2006 7:05 AM Woodsy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by kuresu, posted 08-31-2006 1:40 PM PurpleYouko has replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 34 of 74 (345421)
08-31-2006 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by nwr
08-31-2006 11:34 AM


Re: Not an algorithm
That wiki article even indicates how one would turn the "non-deterministic algorithm" into a deterministic one in order to actually implement it.
Please correct me if I have this wrong.
The wiki article appears to be saying that a random number generator inside an algorith (probabilistic deterministic algorith) is going to send the output in one of a finite number of possible directions such that for any one set of input criteria, N possible outcomes are possible because that is the total number of random possibilities that exist within the randomiser.
This is then deterministic because you can run the algorith N number of times, you will get every possible outcome.
Does that sound about right or am I way off base?

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 Message 33 by nwr, posted 08-31-2006 11:34 AM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by nwr, posted 08-31-2006 12:08 PM PurpleYouko has replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 36 of 74 (345425)
08-31-2006 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Hyroglyphx
08-31-2006 11:56 AM


Re: I am convinced
A GA does not test for survival
DarwinBots does.
Nothing is selected for except for the organism's ability to stay alive and reproduce successfully. Any number of individual attribute may account for general survival rate.

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 Message 35 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-31-2006 11:56 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 40 of 74 (345431)
08-31-2006 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by nwr
08-31-2006 12:08 PM


Re: Not an algorithm
I suspect the second meaning (i.e. the one you suggested), is what was intended.
I thought so too. glad you agree with me.
This does pose some rather interesting questions about biological evolution though.
At heart, DNA is made up of a limited number of combinations of base pairs. It would be easy to apply the same logic to the real system since the randomiser that is "mutation" can only work within tightly defined criteria (ie. a finite number of base pairs). For any mutation event during reproduction, there are only a finite number of possible outcomes so that would mean that real evolution would also fall into the same definition of the term "non-deterministic algorith".

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 Message 39 by nwr, posted 08-31-2006 12:08 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by nwr, posted 08-31-2006 1:28 PM PurpleYouko has replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 43 of 74 (345450)
08-31-2006 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by nwr
08-31-2006 1:28 PM


Re: Not an algorithm
Let's keep in mind that there is more to biology than DNA. People sometimes talk as if the DNA is a specification or blueprint for an organism. But it isn't. Rather, it is specification for manufacturing a variety of proteins. A biological organism comes about when this manufacturing is done in a suitable development environment.
Yes it's a good idea to keep that stuff in mind for the broader picture but i'm just thinking about a single mutation event of a single organism and whether it can be considered to be an algorith or not.
If it has a random element in the same way as the hypothetical "probabilistic deterministic algorithm" then how is the event any different to a computer modelled event.
For the moment I am ignoring the fact that computers only generate pseudo random events since the wiki definition did not specify that a computer was the source of the randomness.

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PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 46 of 74 (345459)
08-31-2006 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by kuresu
08-31-2006 1:40 PM


Re: Not an algorithm
the file i need is the sysvars2.21.txt.
any help?
I've emailed it to you along with a brief description of how to install the program for best results.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by kuresu, posted 08-31-2006 1:40 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by kuresu, posted 08-31-2006 2:09 PM PurpleYouko has not replied
 Message 48 by kuresu, posted 08-31-2006 3:05 PM PurpleYouko has replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 50 of 74 (345492)
08-31-2006 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by kuresu
08-31-2006 3:05 PM


Re: Not an algorithm
okay, got the sysvars file.
ot the install file
installed, got the latest.
compains about not finding the sysvars, but I've got it in the folder labelled
"hard drive
__program files
____darwinbotsII
the 2.37.6 is in the same folder.
I've moved the sysvars around in several folders, but it still refuses to find it.
It should be located in the same folder as the main DarwinBots.exe program (no matter which version)
We should take this offline. Please email me your questions about Darwinbots or post them in the DarwinBots forums

This message is a reply to:
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