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Author Topic:   jar - On Christianity
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3851
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 221 of 307 (345495)
08-31-2006 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by robinrohan
08-31-2006 11:35 AM


Re: Questions
robin writes:

Lewis is not saying we have to "learn to love ourselves." He accepts that we do automatically. He's explaining what self-love consists of, and what it consists of is good will toward oneself. One keeps on having good will toward oneself no matter what one does.

Some people experience keen self-loathing, sometimes terminally so.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by robinrohan, posted 08-31-2006 11:35 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by robinrohan, posted 08-31-2006 5:06 PM Omnivorous has replied
 Message 224 by Faith, posted 08-31-2006 7:11 PM Omnivorous has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3851
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 226 of 307 (345534)
08-31-2006 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by robinrohan
08-31-2006 5:06 PM


Re: Questions
I think most people experience moments of self-loathing.

It's not usually a matter of polite conversation, but most intimate truths aren't.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by robinrohan, posted 08-31-2006 5:06 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-31-2006 8:11 PM Omnivorous has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3851
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 227 of 307 (345536)
08-31-2006 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Faith
08-31-2006 7:11 PM


Faith writes:

Self-hate is self-love in disguise because you wouldn't hate yourself for your failures if you didn't love yourself so much you couldn't stand having the flaws that cause the self-hate.

Humility, true humility, as opposed to self-love /self-hate, would accept all the flaws and the failures without getting all depressed about them. And in that attitude there may be a really healthy self-love.

I think you are bordering--nay, trespassing--on sophistry here. The Sophists were famous for being able to persuade you that black was white, only to then change your mind back the other way. :)

I think most people are stuck with themselves, not on themselves, and learn to live with their shortcomings.

I don't think people kill themselves out of self-love--they choose death to end intolerable pain, a quite different matter.

I don't love myself. I don't hate myself. I've come to terms with my strengths and weaknesses, and I accept the fact that I've done some very good things and some terrible things. I know I am neither the best of persons nor the worst. I try to do better.

I find the injunction to love thyself an odd idea if taken without instructive irony: to me, love places an Other above the self.

Self-love is a masturbatory, contradictory notion. A strong will to survive--even at the expense of self-delusion--is not the same as self-love.

I don't believe Robin loves himself, either. I think he takes good care of himself, by his own lights, but that, too, is another matter.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Faith, posted 08-31-2006 7:11 PM Faith has not replied

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