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Author Topic:   True Freedom
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 256 of 300 (346145)
09-02-2006 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Archer Opteryx
09-02-2006 11:12 PM


Re: academic festival
sounds like you all in taiwan have a system that appears to work well then.
i wonder, how can we transport it over here?
I'm thinking a cargo ship is too small
do your all's standardized tests work?
ours over here aren't a very good measure of what the student knows.
reason being--the classes become focused on passing that test, and focus solely on memorization of the facts, and not on why the facts are.
which is what I think the biggest failure of standardized tests is. It robs the ability of the school to teach why and how, and forces on only what. and most students end up not remembering what, oh, say Boyle's law is.

All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-02-2006 11:12 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-03-2006 4:34 AM kuresu has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 257 of 300 (346153)
09-03-2006 12:23 AM


Don't go to bed mad
Just for the record: MOO and I have had a nice live chat about the dialectic between youth and age, and we're cool with it.

Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 258 of 300 (346175)
09-03-2006 4:34 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by kuresu
09-02-2006 11:39 PM


Re: academic festival
kuresu writes:
sounds like you all in taiwan have a system that appears to work well then.
It has its drawbacks, as I say. But most of us will happily take the disadvantages given the advantages.
i wonder, how can we transport it over here?
I'm thinking a cargo ship is too small
I wouldn't say that. You could probably fit most of Taiwan onto the cargo ship.
The main ingredient is strong central guidance by professional educators. Students meet national standards that are tested. Schools do, too: accreditation of all schools is handled by the government. People know a school is certified by the Ministry of Education or it isn't. It's like the federal guarantees you have in the US for food and banks.
There's not much room for bogus colleges to offer bogus degrees through bogus accreditation agencies. No room exists for retired cops to demand that real science educators put in a plug for pseudoscience, as happened in Dover. The professionals run the schools.
do your all's standardized tests work?
Well... it depends on what you mean by 'work.' You know how these things go. No one's going to design a perfect test.
The exams are demanding, so a lot of learning takes place. High school graduates here tend to be solid on the facts of history, geography, math, grammar. And everyone has confidence in the tests. Most people feel they are fairly designed and administered.
ours over here aren't a very good measure of what the student knows.
reason being--the classes become focused on passing that test, and focus solely on memorization of the facts, and not on why the facts are.which is what I think the biggest failure of standardized tests is. It robs the ability of the school to teach why and how, and forces on only what. and most students end up not remembering what, oh, say Boyle's law is.
I know what you mean. Same pressures here. Definitely.
You make an excellent point about learning styles. Fortunately, we have good teachers here. They know lasting learning--and even a good test score--depends on real understanding. Classes are structured to promote this. The national tests are constantly reworked, too, to try to measure this.
It always depends on the teachers, when you get down to it. Tests don't teach.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Concision.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by kuresu, posted 09-02-2006 11:39 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by kuresu, posted 09-03-2006 1:53 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 259 of 300 (346240)
09-03-2006 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by Archer Opteryx
09-03-2006 4:34 AM


Re: academic festival
and in the meantime we're losing teachers. Very few want to teach--pay's too low when considering some of the hell you can go through.
sounds like you all have well rounded students--at least in the upper tiers. I was fortunate to have the IB program at my school. Essay tests, while more difficult to judge, generally better show what the student actually knows. Mainly cause instead of having four multiple choice answers (one of which will be correct) the student, gasp, has to know something.

All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-03-2006 4:34 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-03-2006 11:37 PM kuresu has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 260 of 300 (346263)
09-03-2006 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Omnivorous
08-31-2006 10:29 PM


Re: good essay
quote:
On the way home, after long, quiet miles, he turned to me and said, "I'll always be the guy that let the team down."
"Yeah," I replied, "you will."
"But it's up to you to decide what that means. You don't have to be the guy that always lets the team down. Everybody makes mistakes; everybody lets the team down. But not everybody learns from that mistake. You can be the guy that learned never to let the team down."
*sigh*
My father wouldn't have cared about the game at all and my mother would have berated me the whole way home.
I would have given just about anything for a real parent like you.
You're a good man, omni.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Omnivorous, posted 08-31-2006 10:29 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Omnivorous, posted 09-03-2006 8:32 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 261 of 300 (346264)
09-03-2006 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Trump won
09-01-2006 8:50 PM


Re: Dear less advantaged men and women of this board.
It funny how you can waxy all day about various philosophical and ontological concern but cannot answer simple questions as put forward by Schraf, myself and others.
quote:
Key word: simple.
Yes.
"Simple", as in "easily answered".
Not "simplistic", but "simple".
Did you make your guitar, or was it made in a factory?
Do you want to California to try to make it in the music business?
Isn't it hypocritical for you to lecture everyone else about living in a capitalist system when you refuse to live your own philosophy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Trump won, posted 09-01-2006 8:50 PM Trump won has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 262 of 300 (346265)
09-03-2006 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by joshua221
09-01-2006 9:32 PM


moo = Messenjah Of One
Just like LM = Lithoid-Man

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by joshua221, posted 09-01-2006 9:32 PM joshua221 has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 263 of 300 (346266)
09-03-2006 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Trump won
09-02-2006 3:52 PM


quote:
So I won't attempt to post anything at all again, this forum's foundation is built upon a subject too broad, breeds an environment lacking intellectuals.
Perhaps you'd like to contrast the positions of Swift, Musseler, and Podhajsky?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Trump won, posted 09-02-2006 3:52 PM Trump won has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 264 of 300 (346267)
09-03-2006 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by joshua221
09-02-2006 4:23 PM


quote:
Schrafinator gave up on the topic, and aggressively wanted to know things about me that were not even important or relevant to the seeking of knowledge or truth.
Yes they were.
Overly-blunt sentence edited to the following more nuturing one:
Why don't you go back through the thread and see if you can figure out how they could be?
Sorry Admin.
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by joshua221, posted 09-02-2006 4:23 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 270 by joshua221, posted 09-04-2006 12:29 AM nator has replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 265 of 300 (346269)
09-03-2006 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by nator
09-03-2006 4:56 PM


Warning to Schraf!
That last sentence should have been a quick explanation as to why they were. It is near to a suspension sentence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by nator, posted 09-03-2006 4:56 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 266 of 300 (346274)
09-03-2006 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by AdminNosy
09-03-2006 5:02 PM


Re: Warning to Schraf!
The questions seem self-evident to me - however Charlie seems to be struggling with them, so let's try a different example.
Bert Thompson was one of the leading lights of Apologetic press - and in that capacity, used to write long pseudo-scientific pieces about the evil of homosexuality and people giving into sin. Only problem was that Bert enjoyed bouncing 17 year old boys off his lap - he was a hypocrite and his actions did not match his words.
In the same way, Prophex is advocating one lifestyle but actually seems to be suckling on the teat of capitalism while he does it. That would seem to make him a hypocrite. However it could be that he's not a hypocrite and therefore his actions reflect his words of profound wisdom. How do we determine this without asking those straight forward questions?
This is very easy to clean-up, Prophex just needs to inform us how he is putting his fine words into action and is not actually full of shit.
I hope my response is straightforward and clear enough for all to understand.
Edited by CK, : Doh! don't want that wikipedia link.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 267 of 300 (346276)
09-03-2006 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by CK
09-03-2006 5:36 PM


Hypocrites and their Philosophies
what you wrote about is exactly why I shy away from making statements. I have a tendency to end up being a hypocrite, but in places I know I'm not, I make statements.
ex:class complaining about load of homework
me:nothing you can do about, so quit whining, and just do it.
(I tend to hate whiners--those who have an obsesive need to whine about any and everything, especially those things they can't do anything about. When it comes to whining about something you can't do anything about, it's better to just plug along. But if you can do something about the situation you're in, like, say the politics of this country, and you can vote, you can whine)
ex:the "who cares generation"
I complain about my generation--we've fallen into a slump of not caring about just about everything. I'm sick and tired off it, and I'm trying to change it, even if the change I effect is only right around me. Because I care, I can criticize those who don't, and the "word" I spread is that of caring about shit again.
ex:turn the other cheek
I can't tell someone to do this. why? until I can control my temper, and not get into physical fights with my brother, how can I tell you not to fight?
yeah . . .

All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by CK, posted 09-03-2006 5:36 PM CK has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 268 of 300 (346294)
09-03-2006 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by nator
09-03-2006 4:26 PM


Re: good essay
schrafinator writes:
I would have given just about anything for a real parent like you.
You're a good man, omni.
Thank you, schraf. I've never had a sweeter compliment.
My father beat me for errors in Little League baseball--he was our coach. He would cheerfully tell the team that winning wasn't as important as trying, then take me home and knock me around for not hitting a winning run or for missing a double-play.
My mother thought games and other competitive events were trivially unimportant and pretended our father's violent emotional and physical eruptions never happened.
I made plenty of mistakes as a parent, but violence, emotional abuse, and trivializing indifference were three things (among others) that I was determined to avoid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by nator, posted 09-03-2006 4:26 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by nator, posted 09-04-2006 9:16 AM Omnivorous has not replied

Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 269 of 300 (346318)
09-03-2006 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by kuresu
09-03-2006 1:53 PM


Re: academic festival
Kuresu,
You mentioned you were exploring the idea of a major in international affairs. If you think this is a likely route for you, I hope you are involved already in some language studies. A specialty of that sort calls for some language skills and I know undergrad programs in the US don't always require foreign language study. If you pass it up now it could be taxing to try to catch up later. Summer language programs, especially those that involve study abroad, can be very helpful option for you at this stage of your studies.
Have you thought about international law? Fascinating.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by kuresu, posted 09-03-2006 1:53 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by kuresu, posted 09-04-2006 1:05 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 270 of 300 (346326)
09-04-2006 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by nator
09-03-2006 4:56 PM


quote:
Why don't you go back through the thread and see if you can figure out how they could be?
You're line of questioning was designed to make me "admit" that I have accepted the benefits of mass production/capitalism/greed/exploitation.
You have asked "Where did you get that guitar?", and similar questions.
I don't know why you got so mad, whatever.
Yes I have many things that were made under capitalism, and yes I use them. I live under capitalism, I did not choose where I was born. Now that I have realized what it is all about, there are not many other places to live a life without having to struggle to survive that are not under capitalism. So although I believe that it is "messed up", you think I should be happy that I have all these wonderful things. I play guitar for the sounds, and for the music, and for the ability to go places through the feelings. I realize that it is an instrument made by factory workers under capitalism. Doing jobs, jobs that I find trivial. But music is a worthwhile purpose.
I would not call myself a hypocrite. I understand the meaninglessness of most purposes, especially those under systems like capitalism. But then again with any system there are trivialities that must be entertained to continue to exist. I am less interested in government, and society lately because I am more interested in truth and Jesus. Jesus, meaning everything that is good and righteous in the world, and in my life, and transcendence.
But I feel that I can rise above the trivialities of government, and society, and empires. And history. I have learned a lot, and I have begun to figure out that none of it is important, if only to show me what is really good.
I am sorry if you thing I avoided your line of questioning, but I was on another plane I believe.
Tell me what you think.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by nator, posted 09-03-2006 4:56 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by nator, posted 09-04-2006 9:44 AM joshua221 has replied

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