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Author Topic:   True Freedom
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 264 of 300 (346267)
09-03-2006 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by joshua221
09-02-2006 4:23 PM


quote:
Schrafinator gave up on the topic, and aggressively wanted to know things about me that were not even important or relevant to the seeking of knowledge or truth.
Yes they were.
Overly-blunt sentence edited to the following more nuturing one:
Why don't you go back through the thread and see if you can figure out how they could be?
Sorry Admin.
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by joshua221, posted 09-02-2006 4:23 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by AdminNosy, posted 09-03-2006 5:02 PM nator has not replied
 Message 270 by joshua221, posted 09-04-2006 12:29 AM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 273 of 300 (346386)
09-04-2006 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Omnivorous
09-03-2006 8:32 PM


Re: good essay
quote:
I made plenty of mistakes as a parent, but violence, emotional abuse, and trivializing indifference were three things (among others) that I was determined to avoid.
I never wanted a perfect parent.
I just wanted one who was interested in me. I needed help growing up and I hardly ever got any.
Neither one of my parents was even close to being emotionally healthy (sounds like yours weren't either, to be sure) so they either ignored me or controlled me.
I think it's amzing and wonderful that you broke the cycle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Omnivorous, posted 09-03-2006 8:32 PM Omnivorous has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 274 of 300 (346391)
09-04-2006 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by joshua221
09-04-2006 12:29 AM


quote:
You're line of questioning was designed to make me "admit" that I have accepted the benefits of mass production/capitalism/greed/exploitation.
Yes.
Furthermore, you are accepting the benefits of mass production/capitalism/greed/exploitation while simultaneously telling all of us to "get out of the system, it's not too late".
You are constantly, every second of every day, benefiting from mass production/capitalism/greed/exploitation while advocating for it's complete revesal.
Why shouldn't I note that? Yes, it is a "simple" question, but isn't it a perfectly natural one to ask you?
Why don't you follow your own philosophy?
quote:
You have asked "Where did you get that guitar?", and similar questions.
I don't know why you got so mad, whatever.
I have never been angry. I've just been blunt.
quote:
Yes I have many things that were made under capitalism, and yes I use them. I live under capitalism, I did not choose where I was born. Now that I have realized what it is all about, there are not many other places to live a life without having to struggle to survive that are not under capitalism.
Are you saying that, for all of it's flaws, capitalism results in less struggling to survive?
You can't have it both ways.
quote:
So although I believe that it is "messed up", you think I should be happy that I have all these wonderful things.
I think nothing of the sort.
What I do think is that if you denounce capitalism as a throughly terrible thing and advise all of us to "get out of the system", then you should be the first to do so.
quote:
I play guitar for the sounds, and for the music, and for the ability to go places through the feelings. I realize that it is an instrument made by factory workers under capitalism. Doing jobs, jobs that I find trivial. But music is a worthwhile purpose.
But capitalism is altogethyer evil and wrong, isn't it? You shouldn't support it if you think that, yet you do support it.
And I'd live for you to talk to the people at the Martin factory and lecture them about the triviality and meaninglessness of their jobs.
quote:
I would not call myself a hypocrite.
LOL! Of course you wouldn't.
But what would you call a guy who advocates that it's very important that everybody else except for him reject the economic system they are in? Everybody else should do as he says, not as he does.
If everybody did as you said, you'd have to make your own guitar.
quote:
I understand the meaninglessness of most purposes, especially those under systems like capitalism. But then again with any system there are trivialities that must be entertained to continue to exist. I am less interested in government, and society lately because I am more interested in truth and Jesus. Jesus, meaning everything that is good and righteous in the world, and in my life, and transcendence.
But I feel that I can rise above the trivialities of government, and society, and empires. And history. I have learned a lot, and I have begun to figure out that none of it is important, if only to show me what is really good.
Er, OK. What does this have to do with the contradiction in what you advocate and how you live?
quote:
I am sorry if you thing I avoided your line of questioning, but I was on another plane I believe.
Yeah. Another plane. Sure.
LOL!
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!"
- Ned Flanders
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by joshua221, posted 09-04-2006 12:29 AM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by joshua221, posted 09-04-2006 5:27 PM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 275 of 300 (346393)
09-04-2006 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by joshua221
09-04-2006 12:49 AM


quote:
More recently I have also decided to give my life to my guitar, to music. To pursue this, my brother and I have been working on some quite promising material, we will begin this coming week to do open mics furiously until we feel that we can move on to bigger gigs, which we have connections with from previous efforts in a rock band.
So, you're hoping to become a professional musician?
Sellout.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by joshua221, posted 09-04-2006 12:49 AM joshua221 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Trump won, posted 09-04-2006 10:17 AM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 281 of 300 (346490)
09-04-2006 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Trump won
09-04-2006 10:17 AM


quote:
Think long and hard of what that lifestyle entails and you'll realize it's quite the opposite of what you've said.
I don't need to "think long and hard" about it.
It's not called "the recording industry" by mistake. It's an industry. A business. You will have to sell yourself if you want to be successful. Marketing is all, pretty much.
In fact, other than TV and movie acting, I really cannot think of a business that is more cuthroat, merciless, unforgiving, and shallow than the pop music business.
Here's some more great lyrics. Wonder if you know the band?
Have A Cigar
Come in here, dear boy, have a cigar.
You're gonna go far, fly high,
You're never gonna die, you're gonna make it if you try;they're gonna love you.
Well I've always had a deep respect, and I mean that most sincerely.
The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think.
Oh by the way, which one's Pink?
And did we tell you the name of the game, boy
we call it Riding the Gravy Train.
We're just knocked out.
We heard about the sell out.
You gotta get an album out,
You owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.
Everybody else is just green, have you seen the chart?
It's a helluva start, it could be made into a monster
if we all pull together as a team.
And did we tell you the name of the game, boy
we call it Riding the Gravy Train.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Trump won, posted 09-04-2006 10:17 AM Trump won has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 284 of 300 (346528)
09-04-2006 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by joshua221
09-04-2006 5:27 PM


Do you plan to actually address my post or are you going to run away again?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by joshua221, posted 09-04-2006 5:27 PM joshua221 has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 288 of 300 (346626)
09-05-2006 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Trump won
09-04-2006 7:31 PM


quote:
People are strange.
Yes, that's generally true, but I don't find you or your brother strange at all.
Both of you are really very typical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Trump won, posted 09-04-2006 7:31 PM Trump won has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 289 of 300 (346627)
09-05-2006 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by Phat
09-05-2006 8:16 AM


Re: A joint letter to messenjah and prophex
quote:
Don't let the older advisors discourage you from having unbounded youthful optimism.
Phat, where do you detect this "unbound optimism" in the boys' posts?
Sneering derision is not optimism.

"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!"
- Ned Flanders
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 8:16 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 8:53 AM nator has not replied

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