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Author Topic:   Thank You Adam Smith.
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 16 of 124 (346737)
09-05-2006 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by CK
09-05-2006 4:35 PM


Re: And thank you....
Where else but Scotland could you get a batter coated deep fried Mars bar?
Adam Smith born in Fife, deep fried Mars bar invented in Scotland, you are on to something.
Did Smith (indirectly of course)have anything to do with training Russian linesmen in the 1960's?
Brian.

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Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 17 of 124 (346739)
09-05-2006 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by joshua221
09-05-2006 2:09 PM


The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
prophex writes:
I didn't want to revise the OP, I think I would ruin it's highly controversial nature, and taint it's original qualities.
It is what it is you know?
I'll tell you one thing! If nothing else, in order to respond to your topic I had to go and read about Adam Smith again. I DO have a fairly decent philosophy book by Louis L. Snyder that summerizes the impact of many of the philosophers in history.
Snyder writes of Smith:
quote:
In 1751 he became professor of logic at Glascow University and the next year professor of moral philosophy. In 1776 he published his famous An Inquiry into the Nature and causes of the Wealth of Nations, which won immediate recognition and established his permanent reputation. Adam Smith had a vast influence not only on economics but also on practical politics.
Apparantly, Adam Smith was highly influential in shaping the economic policy of many future learned thinkers and leaders and by extension the foreign policy of their nations.
I had an interesting philosophy discussion with the clerk at the gas station the other day. My question was this:
If Henry Ford had never invented the Model T, would automobiles later have been invented anyway, and would they have turned out to eventually "evolve" the same way?
The point that I was trying to impress and elaborate on was the idea of whether or not humanity ever has an original thought.
In other words, do we actually create things that never would otherwise exist? (This includes ideas as well as tangible goods)
Back when I was a staunch Biblical Literalist, I could defend my personal philosophy simply by quoting the Bible. I no longer idolize the Bible itself, and am unafraid to question anything about my beliefs that comes up---but I still believe that Christ is the origin of all creativity, truth, and love.
If Adam Smith had not influenced the course of history, would another man have merely stepped in his place?
Is history predestined to arrive at a logical (or illogical) philosophical conclusion, and are humans simply doomed without Christ?
Im bringing this up because I want to see if your opinions and beliefs have changed in the past three years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by joshua221, posted 09-05-2006 2:09 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by CK, posted 09-05-2006 4:52 PM Phat has replied
 Message 32 by joshua221, posted 09-05-2006 5:57 PM Phat has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 18 of 124 (346744)
09-05-2006 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
09-05-2006 4:47 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
quote:
I had an interesting philosophy discussion with the clerk at the gas station the other day. My question was this:
If Henry Ford had never invented the Model T, would automobiles later have been invented anyway, and would they have turned out to eventually "evolve" the same way?
What is it that you think Adam Smith "invented"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 4:47 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 5:03 PM CK has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 124 (346747)
09-05-2006 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by CK
09-05-2006 4:52 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
I don't think he invented anything, really. I do think that he stimulated popular thinking and conclusions that shaped foreign policy.
Any idea that has ever formed influences future ideas, don't you think?
Darwin certainly influenced the thinking of many scientists.
It was said of Isaac Newton at one point that "Newton was Science."
Are you suggesting that if a person were never ezxposed to educational ideas that they would never form their own internal prejudices and beliefs? Or would the predestination of the individual evolve into a similar outcome?
Experience is the best teacher, right?
Would you be the same had you never been a soldier?
Edited by Phat, : spelling

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 Message 18 by CK, posted 09-05-2006 4:52 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by CK, posted 09-05-2006 5:04 PM Phat has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 20 of 124 (346748)
09-05-2006 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
09-05-2006 5:03 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
what popular ideas and conclusions?

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 Message 19 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 5:03 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 5:10 PM CK has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 124 (346752)
09-05-2006 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by CK
09-05-2006 5:04 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
Forcing me to show my hand, eh?
Charles, I have never read Adam Smiths entire book.
Smith did say that consumption was the sole end and purpose of all production.
Lets get back to ideas. If you were a teacher, you would be a producer of ideas. Would you expect your class to be obedient little clones who internalized your ideas and went forth attempting to win converts?
or
Would you expect your class to study diligently, comparing and contrasting your ideas with those of others whom they had read?
Would you insist that your students questioned everything?

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 Message 20 by CK, posted 09-05-2006 5:04 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 24 by robinrohan, posted 09-05-2006 5:24 PM Phat has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 22 of 124 (346753)
09-05-2006 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
09-05-2006 5:10 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
quote:
Lets get back to ideas.
Why? The thread is about Adam Smith - why do I want to have some wooly conversation about "ideas" in such a thread?
quote:
Smith did say that consumption was the sole end and purpose of all production.
And who and what was Adam Smith talking about when he said that? If you don't know, frankly you don't understand enough about Smith, his work or how the historical context framed his work to have a productive conversation on the matter.
Edited by CK, : No reason given.
Edited by CK, : No reason given.

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Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 23 of 124 (346755)
09-05-2006 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by CK
09-05-2006 4:35 PM


Re: And thank you....
On a serious note, wouldn't prophex need to lay some blame at the feet of the wonderful John Nash, of Beautiful Mind fame?
After all he did point out an error in one of Smith's theories.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by CK, posted 09-05-2006 4:35 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by CK, posted 09-05-2006 5:36 PM Brian has not replied
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 5:38 PM Brian has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 124 (346757)
09-05-2006 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
09-05-2006 5:10 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
Would you insist that your students questioned everything?
There are certain ideas that a student has to accept; otherwise we can't proceed with the course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 5:10 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 5:47 PM robinrohan has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 25 of 124 (346759)
09-05-2006 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Brian
09-05-2006 5:17 PM


Brian...
check your email when you get a moment.

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 Message 23 by Brian, posted 09-05-2006 5:17 PM Brian has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 26 of 124 (346760)
09-05-2006 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Brian
09-05-2006 5:17 PM


Re: And thank you....
Wow, Brian! Thats a great link, and it shows me the unique thinking capabilities of John Nash. If Nash had never existed, could his theories have evolved through other human vessels?
Moreover---what is the source of Nash's genius??

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Brian, posted 09-05-2006 5:17 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Brian, posted 09-05-2006 5:54 PM Phat has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 124 (346762)
09-05-2006 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Brian
09-05-2006 4:13 PM


Re: And thank you....
It's going good.
When I put in on my schedule, I didn't really realize what it was going to be like, it's basic logic.
arguments, premises, claims, etc... Critical thinking.
So it's not the best course, it's like sunday school lol.
I wanted a course on philosophy that taught about the philosophers, but it's not a bad course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Brian, posted 09-05-2006 4:13 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Brian, posted 09-05-2006 5:52 PM joshua221 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 28 of 124 (346763)
09-05-2006 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by robinrohan
09-05-2006 5:24 PM


What are the parameters of a theory?(or a belief)
RR writes:
There are certain ideas that a student has to accept; otherwise we can't proceed with the course.
Does a serious student of Adam Smith have to understand everything that Smith wrote?
I certainly don't feel the need to.
My interaction is with prophex and with the rest of you---not in defending or attacking Adam Smith.

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 Message 24 by robinrohan, posted 09-05-2006 5:24 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 29 of 124 (346765)
09-05-2006 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by joshua221
09-05-2006 5:46 PM


Re: And thank you....
Good to hear that it is going well.
How is it affecting your personal beliefs?
For example, take the current topic, do you think it is a reasonable argument that if God created Smith then ultimately it is God who we should thank for your list, or should we be thanking Eve for eating that fruit?
Also, don't you think that you need to look at the influences on Smith's life and also the people that have improved Smith's original ideas?
brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by joshua221, posted 09-05-2006 5:46 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by joshua221, posted 09-05-2006 6:10 PM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 30 of 124 (346766)
09-05-2006 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Phat
09-05-2006 5:38 PM


Re: And thank you....
If Nash had never existed, could his theories have evolved through other human vessels?
I have no idea. This is why I prefer history to philosophy, because philosophy has no real answers.
Moreover---what is the source of Nash's genius??
Deep fried Mars bars.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 09-05-2006 5:38 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
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