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Author | Topic: Thank You Adam Smith. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18267 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Brian writes: I think everyone would benefit from taking a history course, especially one about what history actually is.Phat writes: I know very little about world history. I took a course in European History a couple of years ago---but I am naive as to the evolution of ideas from a global perspective. If someone is a deep thinker, and dwells on the ills of the world, then taking a philosophy course could lead to real psychological problems.Phat writes: Sometimes, I think that we dwell on the problems of others (including the world) in order to avoid concentrating on our own problems. Please note that I am in no way suggesting that this relates to prophex, but I have seen at first hand some very messed up students on philosophy courses. When I returned to college in my early forties, I was amazed at how many 18-22 year olds are in such a hurry to get through college. It is the only time when they can discuss ideas with other people without being tied down by a job or the demands and responsibilities of everyday life. If I had it to do over again, I would have attended college and taken six years to graduate--while working part time.
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CK Member (Idle past 4129 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
deleted by author.
Edited by CK, : No reason given.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
When I returned to college in my early forties, I was amazed at how many 18-22 year olds are in such a hurry to get through college. It is the only time when they can discuss ideas with other people without being tied down by a job or the demands and responsibilities of everyday life. Problem is though, in regard to philosophy, very few young people have had the life experience to fully appreciate some of the issues under discussion. I remember a class on suffering where we were talking about the death of a close relative, I was 30 and I was the only one who had lost a parent, I had lost both of them (I know it was careless ), but it did mean I really engaged with the material, and I think this applies to other issues as well. Having your heart broken, or realising that you will never fulfill a dream are things you need to go through to appreciate.
If I had it to do over again, I would have attended college and taken six years to graduate--while working part time. I think I would have went to uni ten years earlier, got the qualifications, then work and travel abroad. Still time for that though. Brian.
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2514 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
I must say, you do a great job of blaming Adam Smith for a bunch of shit he's not responsible for.
The competition's been arond forever--ever since we've had tribes competing against one another. nicotene is naturally found in tobaccoo, and was already being used in the 1600s--why do you think it was a cash crop (for Virginia) under the mercantilist system? money--ever since we switched from the bargaining system, we've had money. I mean, even Hammurabi's code deals with debt and credit, and we know they had money from the this--"if you don't have the cash, you gotta pay with grain" (paraphrased) there have always been have-nots--ever since we've had greed. I admit, social darwinism was bad--but so is this current capitalism--robber barons and Exxon-mobil was not what Smith was advocating industrialization--I don't know how that relates to capitalism. Care to elaborate? mediocrity has been here for a long while, and is actually not advocated by capitalism. why? if you make a so-so product, and someone else makes a better quality product, which are you going to buy? If you say the mediocre one, it is only becuase you do not care for quality. while you're blaming ghettoes on capitalism, be sure to blame Hitler too. Better yet, blame the ghettoes on the greedy robber barons who abused the capitalist system. aren't slums the same thing as ghettoes? You know, at least we get to retire at 65 and enjoy life afterwards--want to go back to a time when living to 65 was rare? Like in Smith's time? We've always had jobs--ever since something needed to be done. the first civilization, Sumer, had jobs. again, seeing as how you equate jobs with meaningless occupation, blame the damn sumerians. slavery was well in existence before capitalism. Again, the sumerians had slaves. blame them for the idea. I'm not sure which misleads the world more--communism, fanatic crackpots, idealists, or capitalistism? On the point of the world wars--I defintely disagree. WWI was the result of a crazed ruler desparate to prove Europe of germany, and his own, might. WWII was the direct result of the Versailles Treaty--it's unfairness and the unwillingness to defend it. The first we killed for oil was in WWI--without it the war would've been lost by britain and france before we stepped in. Jingoism is a result of imperialism, see below You want to tell me that Hammurabi, Alexander, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Hittites, and many other ancient and classical civilization's weren't in the least bit imperial, and wanted to expand their empire? We've had borders since we first had city-states--again, blame the sumerians. Nationalism is not the result of Capitalism--it is, in fact, one of the results of raison d'etat. You know, I personally blame Osama for 9/11, but whatever. Terrorism has been around for a long time--far longer than has capitalism. I would blame your God for making our minds so primitive, not something that didn't actually create them. (in my case, I blame evolution for the screwed up body I've got) Don't see what capitalism has to do with automobiles and pollution. care to elaborate? Something tells me you don't mean to thank Smith for not living, as he did in fact live. If you blame him for the "false" live we all lead, its our choice to follow the "false" lives. I happen to think mine's real, but then, "I think not" (oops. do I disappear now) suburbs are a direct result of the American dream, and we've had the american dream before most farmers were introduced to capitalism. It is, instead, a direct result of our greed. I'm not sure what conformity and capitalism share, care to elaborate? as to those glass ceilings--I like my sky lightsyou know, it's a good thing there glass--we can break through them. Now, had you made them out of steel and other really strong materials, we'd be deep in trouble. Oh wait, good thing we've got capitalism--who knows what's on the other side, right? It could be an economic goldmine--and whoever gets there first wins. sorry, no ceilings, not where there's money to be made. At least you do thank him for the one thing he is directly responsible for--capitalism. What system? You mean we live in the matrix!? shit, we need neo, now. there's always been a system--bargaining, mercantilism, communism, capitalism, and then the governments. Might as well lay the blame at everybody's feet. Point put simple--quit blaming the wrong guy. Or, actually do something about it if you think it's so bad. All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5909 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
prophex
I have to ask. Are you able to offer solutions to the problems you think are presented here? Just how would you guide a nation state or city yourself? In what way would you get work done and how would you pay people?Certainly a man such as yourself is not going to be hypocritical by merely pointing out supposed faults without showing the proper way to accomplish things to produce a world that you consider better run and more equitable. It is easy to talk of solutions ,it is quite another to convince the world to implement them.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4960 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Just how would you guide a nation state or city yourself? Surely a Christian theocracy is the answer? Brian.
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nator Member (Idle past 2171 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You don't think that currency, greed, focus on material wealth, and capitalism existed before Smith?
quote: Reciprocity has always existed. "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours." Why is that bad?
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Phat Member Posts: 18267 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
schrafinator writes:
Open reciprocity was very simple. If I lived near a forest and you lived near the sea, I could provide you with wood in exchange for you providing me with fish. Reciprocity has always existed. Why is that bad? It became complicated when money was invented. For one thing, the reciprocity became fixed and closed. I dont like it when the marketplace drives the prices. It means that I have to work for less because some cheap labor is willing to work less. The banking system is also a villain. What sense does it make when money can be multiplied? For example, if I deposit $1000.00 in the bank and the bank loans you $1000.00, the $1000.00 has essentially become $3000.00. On paper, I am worth $1000.00.at the same moment,the bank lists its assets as $1000.00 in the hope that I keep them there. At the same moment, you have $1000.00 in your hand, although you will owe them $1007.00 payback. That certainly seems like a corrupt system. I can't quite put a handle on why, except to suggest that it keeps the rich richer and the poor working harder.
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
The banking system is also a villain. What sense does it make when money can be multiplied? For example, if I deposit $1000.00 in the bank and the bank loans you $1000.00, the $1000.00 has essentially become $3000.00.
That sounds wrong.
On paper, I am worth $1000.00.
Actually, that $1,000 deposit will be counted as a liability for the bank, because they owe it to you.
at the same moment,the bank lists its assets as $1000.00 in the hope that I keep them there. At the same moment, you have $1000.00 in your hand, although you will owe them $1007.00 payback.
The bank will count that as an asset, since it is owed to them.
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CK Member (Idle past 4129 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
quote: What if you didn't have any wood or skills - what would you provide to the person at the sea? How is this not "fixed and closed"?
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Phat Member Posts: 18267 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Im no expert at economics, but I have a rhetorical question for someone with a basic grasp of world economics:
Can Capitalism successfully exist as the only free market system in the world without people to exploit? In other words, if too many people get on the boat, will the whole boat sink? Sorry if I sound ignorant, because I basically am!
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jar Member (Idle past 395 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Open reciprocity was very simple. If I lived near a forest and you lived near the sea, I could provide you with wood in exchange for you providing me with fish. Which was fine if the fisherman needed wood, but did not work when he needed fruit.
It became complicated when money was invented. How did it become complicated when money was invented? It seems that it became much simpler.
For one thing, the reciprocity became fixed and closed. How did it become fixed and closed as opposed to open and flexible? Before there was money, if the person with the fish needed a product he did not have, he had to find a supplier of the desired product that also wanted fish and that lived within the transport distances of the fish or had to go through a multistage process. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Taz Member (Idle past 3293 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Brian writes:
Even a Christian theocracy is based on money and greed with an extra flavor of jealousy. How did you think goodie so-and-so got hung (hanged?) for having whiter sheets than goodie so-and-so-1?
Surely a Christian theocracy is the answer?
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
quote: quote: quote: quote: I finally figured you out schraf. You state premises, not arguments. Simple claims/questions without any supporting facts and evidence... Good thing I have this new Critical Thinking class. And by the way my first post was meant to be like that.
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
I'll get back to you all, don't worry kurasu. (not kerasu)
Edit: Wow I can't get your name right. Why is it so hard to spell lol. KURESU!!! Edited by prophex, : No reason given.
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