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Author Topic:   Buzsaw's Belief Statement
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 59 (346106)
09-02-2006 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Archer Opteryx
09-02-2006 2:50 AM


Brief And Boring?
AO writes:

Think what a brief, boring read it would be if they had behaved themselves.

Brief and boring? I doubt it. Only God knows what they and their descendents would've accomplised for the Kingdom Of God, had they been obedient.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-02-2006 2:50 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by ringo, posted 09-03-2006 11:39 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 59 (346107)
09-02-2006 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
09-01-2006 11:19 PM


Clarification needed for response. Not comprehending your assessment of my statements.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 09-01-2006 11:19 PM jar has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 59 (346316)
09-03-2006 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by ringo
09-03-2006 11:39 AM


Re: Brief And Boring?
1. God desires fellowship with his beings as the walks in the garden with them. Now there's none.
2. They dressed the beautiful garden and who knows what all they would have done for the planet and specifially their garden area. Most of it remains unknown to us except what is given in the record.
3. Only God knows the rest.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by ringo, posted 09-03-2006 11:39 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by ringo, posted 09-03-2006 11:47 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 59 (346949)
09-06-2006 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by ringo
09-03-2006 11:47 PM


Re: Brief And Boring?
1. I suppose I should have clarified. No more daily walks in the garden with men, that is until after Christ and the indwelling Holy Spirit living within those who've taken advantage of that salvation/restoration of fellowship by receiving the savior, Jesus, son of God/redeemer. :cool:

2. Clarification: No sweat of the brow kind of hard labor preparing the ground, clearing away thorns and thistles, cursed ground et al for them in the garden.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by ringo, posted 09-03-2006 11:47 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by nator, posted 09-06-2006 10:02 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 40 by ringo, posted 09-06-2006 12:11 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 59 (347125)
09-06-2006 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by nator
09-06-2006 10:02 AM


Re: Brief And Boring?
I wasn't there but the implication is that the rose bushes had no thorns. The curse barbed up the roses.

I have a lot of wild rasberrys around my 8 acres. I love to eat the berrys, but OUCH, when I try to get in among them to prune or make a path without proper clothing and gloves. Yah, thornless plants would be cool! :cool:

Ironically the curse of the thorns pierced the redeemer, Jesus's brow and head at the crucifixion when he paid the penalty for the sins of the world which originated at the time of the curse which originated the thorns. So the curse for sin effected the thorn crown's part for the sacrificial remedy for sin, the just savior suffering and dying for the unjust (paying the penalty for the sin of the unjust) so that the unjust might be proclaimed by God as just and have eternal life. :cool:


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by nator, posted 09-06-2006 10:02 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by nator, posted 09-07-2006 7:22 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 59 (347135)
09-06-2006 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by ringo
09-06-2006 12:11 PM


Re: Apples and Oranges
Ringo writes:

And yet His covenant with Israel included:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lev 26:12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, good bud, you're sharp and efficient in your research. Thanks. However it's apples and oranges. Walking with God for the most part, especially before the NT times in scripture equates to obeying his commandments and having his blessings. It wasn't like in the garden when he actually in some form or another walked beside you and spoke audibly with you in a beautiful garden day in and day out. The same goes with Micah 6:8.

So yes, change and fall verified.

Ringo writes:

No sweat of the brow kind of hard labor....

Speak for yourself, Easymoney. :D

Ringo writes:

What do you suppose "dressing it and keeping it" entailed?

Well, they ate of the fruit of the trees so it wasn't for food. The fruit and nuts in the trees (don't forget the lucious avacadoes) were certainly adequate for a healthy diet with little work on the part of Adam and Eve.

I think of it as like a retired one who loves to garden, arranging things to suit and enjoying every minute of it. I have three vege gardens and since they provide much of my organic fresh food, it's work, especially digging potatoes which I'm doing now. However other than pruning, the trees take little work.

Ringo writes:

Sounds like a promotion, not a fall.

LOL! I'm looking for the New earth and the New Jerusalem with all the streets of gold, pearly gates and the life trees on both sides of the river bearing 12 kinds of fruit. Now that, me friend will be promotion, big time! :cool:


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by ringo, posted 09-06-2006 12:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 09-06-2006 10:51 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 59 (347796)
09-09-2006 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by ringo
09-06-2006 10:51 PM


Re: Apples and Oranges
Ringo writes:

Um... there are still fruit trees around now, aren't there? Where's the change?

OK you win this round. I assumed too much and failed to do my homework. Thanks for he lesson on both the walk and the eats. :)

The part I don't concede on however is on the fall. They still fell from immortality to mortality and fell in status from being garden dressers to full fledged ground tilling sweat of the brow farmers.

Ringo writes:

He'd just beam a smile at them and say, "How can you call this 'work'?"

Nice story, Ringo, but tell it to the coal miner, the lumberjack, the farmers (especially before industrialization machines), the ditchdigger before machines and the rugged fishermen who risked their lives to make their living. It's bonafide ole fashioned sweat of the brow hard labor. On my dad's cattle ranch in Wyo we loathed haying season when you hand handled all the heavy bales of alfalfa and timothy hay, for example.

Ringo writes:

That spirit certainly didn't die in the garden. There are still people who enjoy every minute of their work.

Granted, but that doesn't erase my point.

Ringo writes:

It is easy to make money - unless you want a lot of it.

Tell it to the Muslim work, the Hindu world, the Communist world, as well as the majority of all the rest, deluded American, where the poorest among us are conidered rich to most of the world.

Ringo writes:

I'm a prairie boy. I'd rather have a big sky, a dusty road and my old worn-out sandals. Free choke-cherries, free saskatoons....

Garden of Eden, baby.

Yah, I love my home state, Wyoming, chokecherries, elk steaks, mountain trout and all. Upstate NY nice too. From the description of heaven however, I'll go for it, especially since we'll all exist somewhere different anyhow. It'll definitely beat the torment of hell where no footwear and no chokecherries can exist. :eek:

Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 09-06-2006 10:51 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 09-09-2006 4:20 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 49 by ringo, posted 09-09-2006 4:47 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 59 (347801)
09-09-2006 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by nator
09-07-2006 7:22 AM


Re: Brief And Boring?
The implication is that everything was so perfect ecologically that the pests were no problem and that there was so much plush fruit et al that there was no problem of shortage so far as reseeding.

Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by nator, posted 09-07-2006 7:22 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by nator, posted 09-09-2006 6:08 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 59 (349653)
09-16-2006 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
09-09-2006 4:20 PM


Re: Apples and Oranges
jar writes:

There you go contradicting yourself yet again, buz. In Message 28 you already said:
In fact, A&E never had immortality and so did not lose it.

If Adam and Eve never had immortality how can you claim...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The part I don't concede on however is on the fall. They still fell from immortality to mortality and fell in status from being garden dressers to full fledged ground tilling sweat of the brow farmers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was no Fall from immortality. It is simply not in the Bible.

The second part of your statement is as unsupportable as the first. Garden Dressers? Where exactly is that found in Genesis? What is the difference from having to tend the garden to being a farmer?

Jar, this statement which you cite, "There was no Fall from immortality. It is simply not in the Bible" was Omnivorous's statement in the message I was responding to. I forgot to delete it from my message content before submitting my message. My apologies for this mistake which led you to believe it was my statement.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 09-09-2006 4:20 PM jar has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 59 (349658)
09-16-2006 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by ringo
09-09-2006 4:47 PM


Re: Apples and Oranges
Ringo writes:

Well, the lesson was that the human race has become more attuned to God, not less. Since acquiring the knowledge of good and evil, we have become more like God, not less.

Ringo, knowledge is not all there is about God's image. That the knowledge of evil was added to their beings did not make them more like God. It worked to make them and their descendents more evil, sinful and fallen physically, morally and spiritually.

Ringo writes:

I have an uncle who used to be a fisherman. Know what he used to do on his day off?

He went fishing.

1. And sir, how many working fishermen fish on their time off? Likely your uncle was very unusual in this respect.

2. While these men worked their work was tedious sweat of the brow hard labor, especially for the hired crew.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by ringo, posted 09-09-2006 4:47 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 09-16-2006 9:56 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 59 (349713)
09-17-2006 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by ringo
09-16-2006 9:56 PM


Re: Apples and Oranges
Whatever. :rolleyes:


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 09-16-2006 9:56 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 11-27-2006 7:51 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 59 (367512)
12-02-2006 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
11-27-2006 7:51 AM


Re: Apples and Oranges and Monkeys and Fish
Phat writes:

Good Morning, Buzsaw. I wanted to briefly ask you some questions so as to clarify your beliefs, if you don't mind. (plus we need some stimulating conversations around this place! )
Answer these questions for me, if you don't mind:

Have your beliefs changed much over the years? Do you think that there is a possibility that they may evolve? (had to use that word! )

Do you believe that there is some sort of a spiritual war or dynamic conflict within the human psyche that could be responsible for complicating our search for truth?

What do you think of Carlton Pearsons Gospel Of Inclusion? I know that it is similar to how Jar and Ringo believed. Personally, I am open to Gods revelation or refutation of this theology, as I sense an innate trust in Carlton Pearson and see that he is on an honest search and seemingly is not deceived.

Hi Phat. My apologies for missing this message. I was doing some catching up this evening and noticed your message.

I've changed my mind a number of times since age 10 when I first became a Christian and a Bible student.

I became a Christian in a Baptist church in Wyoming in which I was taught most of the evangelical doctrines. I began my studies reading many books by Evangelical authors including much on the prophecies. From this I began to get interested in current events such as the restoration of Israel as prophesied in the Bible. This was happening about the time I first got interested in prophecy. I had three semesters at Bob Jones University where I became inspired to completely dedicate my life to God which helped me tow Christian the line during four years in the Air Force a few years later.

I then began to more intensly study directly from the scriptures concerning prophecy and other evangelical doctrines, to discover that a significant amount of what I was reading in the published prophecy books did not match the scriptures. This also held true to some of the other doctrines such as the literal renderng of Genesis one, et al. For example, as I've mentioned on occasion, the frist four days were not determined as to length by the sun which was not created until some time in day four, et al.

These are a few things which have changed as I've progressed in knowledge over the years. If you have anything in particular in mind regarding your question, feel free to specify.

I have edited in this which I sometimes use as my message signature into my OP of this thread. This pretty much sumarizes my evolved hypothesis on the universe relative to God. This is in lieu of YEC which I originally espoused.

In Jehovah God's Universe; time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

I know that the scriptures warn us all that Satan is the deceiver and seeks to deceive everyone including the most devout Christians, so yes, there is definitely a spiritual warfare going on, not only within the human psyche, but in all the world.

I appreciate your interest and covet your prayers as I pray for you and as we both seek to come to the knowledge of truth in all matters. I do consider you a brother in Christ Jesus regardless of some of our ideological differences. :cool:

As for Carlton Pearson's illogical gospel, if he is correct, Jesus is a liar and imposter by his claim in John 14:6 where he emphaticly states: "I am the way, the truth and the life; no man comes to the Father but by me." If Pearson is correct the vicarious sacrificial death of Jesus was in vain and the preaching of the Biblical gospel is foolishness. You can't have it both ways. Either you reject the NT or you believe Pearson. I go with the NT.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 11-27-2006 7:51 AM Phat has not replied

  
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