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Author Topic:   The Flood - Animals and their minimum food requirement
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 174 of 239 (346589)
09-05-2006 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by johnfolton
09-04-2006 10:23 PM


Re: flood facts
johnfolton writes:
Trees and animals, layers of peat and mosses, twisted and mangled together like some giant mixer had jumbled them some 10,000 years ago, and then froze them into a solid mass. The evidence immediately suggests an enormous tidal wave which raged over the land, tumbling animals and vegetation within its mass, which was then quick-frozen (Sanderson, 1960).
But not before meticulously separating the corpses of trilobites, dinosaurs, and mammals and laying each down carefully in its own separate bed within the strata.
The Glaciers from a creationist point of view happened during the biblical deluge, it was winter in the northern hemisphere. The insects, fish, frogs, trees, would of been temporarily frozen as summer came to be the glaciers would of started melting in the northern hemisphere.
All these creatures (and seeds) thawing out from the ice would of multiplied rapidly after the flood waters abated. The evidence is pretty conclusive that the glaciers happened quite suddenly, to a creationists reseeding (regenerating) the earth food supply for the creatures coming forth from the Noah's ark.
Interesting hypothesis. I tried an experiment yesterday as soon as I read this.
I took a male and a female frog, immersed them in a cup of water, and stuck the cup in my freezer.
I pulled the cup out an hour ago. The ice melted and I used a blow dryer to thaw out the frogs.
But they don't seem to be in much of a mood to multiply--rapidly or otherwise.
What did I do wrong? Should I leave them in the freezer longer? Throw in some peat moss?
Please advise.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Typo.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Typo.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by johnfolton, posted 09-04-2006 10:23 PM johnfolton has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 175 of 239 (346593)
09-05-2006 2:52 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by johnfolton
09-04-2006 10:23 PM


fun with flooding
johnfolton writes:
The Glaciers from a creationist point of view happened during the biblical deluge, it was winter in the northern hemisphere. The insects, fish, frogs, trees, would of been temporarily frozen as summer came to be the glaciers would of started melting in the northern hemisphere.
All these creatures (and seeds) thawing out from the ice would of multiplied rapidly after the flood waters abated. The evidence is pretty conclusive that the glaciers happened quite suddenly, to a creationists reseeding (regenerating) the earth food supply for the creatures coming forth from the Noah's ark.
Then why have an ark at all?
Noah and his family would only need to be frozen into a glacier for the duration, then thawed out. It would save them all the trouble of building a ship and taking care of animals.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by johnfolton, posted 09-04-2006 10:23 PM johnfolton has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 194 of 239 (346795)
09-05-2006 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Brian
09-05-2006 5:22 PM


shake, rattle & troll
Yeah, when I saw the bit about suspended animation in glaciers my Troll Alert Meter started glowing orange.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Brian, posted 09-05-2006 5:22 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Brian, posted 09-05-2006 6:51 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 195 of 239 (346799)
09-05-2006 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by obvious Child
09-05-2006 3:48 AM


Mesopotamian flood myths
obvious child:
We all know that Christanity stole the flood story from Enmua Elish which jacked it from Gligamesh.
What is the basic outlines of those in terms of animals, food, etc?
Christianity inherited the story from Judaism, of course, which inherited it from ancient Hebrew ancestors who traced their own ancestry to ancient Sumer/Babylonia. (Abraham emigrated from Ur.)
The flood story in Genesis owes a great deal to the flood story in the Gilgamesh epic, as you say. The hero of the Gilgamesh myth is named Ut-napishtim. The chief difference between the two myths (as between Genesis and other Mesopotamian creation accounts) is theological. The Hebrew versions reflect a monotheistic world view while the stories of their neighbors reflect a polytheistic one.
Comparison of Noah and Ut-Napishtim flood myths:
COMPARISON OF BABYLONIAN AND NOAHIC FLOOD STORIES
Edited by Archer Opterix, : URL repair.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : URL repair.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by obvious Child, posted 09-05-2006 3:48 AM obvious Child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by obvious Child, posted 09-05-2006 10:59 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 207 of 239 (346879)
09-06-2006 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by obvious Child
09-05-2006 10:59 PM


Re: Mesopotamian flood myths
The story of Utnapishtim and the flood appears in one tablet of the Epic of Gilgamesh as a backstory. Many years after the flood, and thus long after Utnapishtim and his wife have been awarded immortal status, Gilgamesh seeks them out to learn how he can become immortal as well.
In the flood narrative itself, it is the deity Ea who warns Utnapishtim of the coming flood being sent by Enlil. Ea instructs him, in part:
Tear down (this) house, build a ship!
Give up possessions, seek thou life.
Despise property and keep the soul alive.
Aboard the ship take thou the seed of all living things.
It is worth mentioning that the flood, though huge, is never said to be universal. It does carry the ship above mountaintops, though.
Further on in the narrative Utnapishtim describes building the ship, a process that takes seven days.
On the seventh day the ship was completed.
The launching was very difficult[...]
Whatever I had I laded upon her.
Whatever I had of silver I laded upon her,
Whatever I had of gold I laded upon her,
Whatever I had of all the living beings I laded upon her.
All my family and kin I made go aboard the ship.
The beasts of the field, the wild creatures of the field,
All the craftsmen I made go aboard.
The ship is shaped like an exact cube--'ten dozen cubits' in each dimension--and has seven floors.
__
http://alexm.here.ru/mirrors/www.enteract.com/jwalz/Eliade/073.html
Translation by E. A. Speiser, in Ancient Near Eastern Texts (Princeton, 1950), pp. 60-72, as reprinted in Isaac Mendelsohn (ed.), Religions of the Ancient Near East, Library of Religion paperbook series (New York, 1955).
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Clarity.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Clarity.
Edited by Admin, : Fix garbling of the link by the software.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by obvious Child, posted 09-05-2006 10:59 PM obvious Child has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 222 of 239 (347100)
09-06-2006 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Jazzns
06-27-2006 11:49 AM


Re: Dino's you say?
Jazzns:
It seems, if we are trying to make the BEST case for fitting everthing in the ark look rediculous, that we should assume the dinos were not on board. I mean seriously, there were dinos that alone would fill the entire volume of the ark if you ground them up into sausage.
Top creation researchers estimate that Noah could take 55 representative dinosaur 'kinds' onto the ark. If he took less than full-size adults for the largest kinds, everyone could ride in cross-ventilated comfort with plenty of leg room.
According to Genesis 6:15, the Ark measured 300 x 50 x 30 cubits, which is about 460 x 75 x 44 feet, with a volume of about 1.52 million cubic feet. Researchers have shown that this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard railroad stock cars (US), each of which can hold 240 sheep. By the way, only 11% of all land animals are larger than a sheep.
Without getting into all the math, the 16,000-plus animals would have occupied much less than half the space in the Ark (even allowing them some moving-around space).
Were Dinosaurs on Noah’s Ark? | Answers in Genesis
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Clarity.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Typo.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Typo.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Jazzns, posted 06-27-2006 11:49 AM Jazzns has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by kuresu, posted 09-06-2006 7:56 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 225 of 239 (347184)
09-07-2006 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by obvious Child
09-07-2006 1:04 AM


Re: Dino's you say?
obvious Child;
how does a cube shaped ship survive huge broadside waves?
Most would have trouble. But legendary ships can be pretty sturdy.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by obvious Child, posted 09-07-2006 1:04 AM obvious Child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by obvious Child, posted 09-07-2006 3:12 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 228 of 239 (347267)
09-07-2006 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by obvious Child
09-07-2006 3:12 AM


nice cube
Those who take the Genesis flood story literally sometimes point to the impracticality of Utnapishtim's cube-shaped ark. They say that, because the dimensions of the Genesis ark are much more credible than those of the Sumerian ark, Noah's story must be the 'true' one while Utnapishtim's story is obviously fanciful.
.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Clarity.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by obvious Child, posted 09-07-2006 3:12 AM obvious Child has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by ReverendDG, posted 09-07-2006 2:14 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 232 of 239 (347361)
09-07-2006 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by ReverendDG
09-07-2006 2:14 PM


Re: nice cube
ReverendDG:
[....] i mean come on? claiming their myth is right because another is even less realistic?
no one expects anyone to believe the utnapishtim story would work anymore than the noah one works, well people who arn't promoting it as the truth arn't
Both flood stories should be presented in schools, don't you think?
Teach the controversy.
AO
_
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Clarity.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by ReverendDG, posted 09-07-2006 2:14 PM ReverendDG has not replied

  
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