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Author Topic:   Thank You Adam Smith.
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 76 of 124 (347389)
09-07-2006 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by joshua221
09-07-2006 7:50 PM


prophex:
I don't want to be a part of it.
Then I can help you get the emigration information you need.
How soon will you be leaving for North Korea?

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by joshua221, posted 09-07-2006 7:50 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2006 9:47 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied
 Message 79 by joshua221, posted 09-07-2006 10:49 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 77 of 124 (347394)
09-07-2006 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Archer Opteryx
09-07-2006 9:36 PM


archer writes:
How soon will you be leaving for North Korea?
that was good, archer, real smooth.

All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-07-2006 9:36 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 124 (347407)
09-07-2006 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by CK
09-07-2006 8:11 PM


Re: Let's start with a simple question
I have studied Smith in Western Civ. and AP American.
I already told you that he is below me. Money is below me. It should be below you too.
I am not running, chatter about money/economics/economists, is worthless.
I wouldn't waste my time actually reading any of his horrible titles.
I know what he's about, he is very important to our country, and to industry, and to competition, and to perpetuating this rat-race.
Free trade, competition, to work out problems. Where competition weeds out bad business right?
Who cares man, who cares. Not me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by CK, posted 09-07-2006 8:11 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2006 11:03 PM joshua221 has replied
 Message 84 by CK, posted 09-08-2006 2:48 AM joshua221 has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 124 (347408)
09-07-2006 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Archer Opteryx
09-07-2006 9:36 PM


lol
Don't make me diss Taiwan.
I used to play with action figures.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-07-2006 9:36 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-08-2006 3:01 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 80 of 124 (347416)
09-07-2006 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by joshua221
09-07-2006 10:47 PM


Re: Let's start with a simple question
wow. just wow.
you're criticizing the guy, without having read his work.
you, who would rather read the works of the philosophers instead of getting the reader's digest version from your teachers.
you do smack of hypocrisy.

All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by joshua221, posted 09-07-2006 10:47 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by joshua221, posted 09-07-2006 11:14 PM kuresu has replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 124 (347428)
09-07-2006 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by kuresu
09-07-2006 11:03 PM


Re: Let's start with a simple question
I am trying to get my point across.
I explained why I will never read his books.
I explained why I didn't have to to write a good OP.
So whatever dawgs.
Edited by prophex, : No reason given.
Edited by prophex, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2006 11:03 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2006 11:33 PM joshua221 has not replied
 Message 122 by nator, posted 09-09-2006 5:50 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 82 of 124 (347439)
09-07-2006 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by joshua221
09-07-2006 11:14 PM


Re: Let's start with a simple question
I'd hate to compare you with the creationists who feel they don't need to understand evolution in order to try and destroy it, but . . .
isn't there a phrase somewhere to the effect of needing to know your enemy before you fight him?

All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by joshua221, posted 09-07-2006 11:14 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6353 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 83 of 124 (347476)
09-08-2006 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Brian
09-05-2006 4:43 PM


Re: And thank you....
Did Smith (indirectly of course)have anything to do with training Russian linesmen in the 1960's?
Still bitter after all these years?
I'm sure one day you'll make it past the first group stage of the finals of a tournament.
And the linesman was Soviet, not Russian - he was actually from Azerbaijan.

Oops! Wrong Planet

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Brian, posted 09-05-2006 4:43 PM Brian has not replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 84 of 124 (347486)
09-08-2006 2:48 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by joshua221
09-07-2006 10:47 PM


Re: Let's start with a simple question
quote:
I have studied Smith in Western Civ. and AP American.
ah - I'm starting to see the problem.
quote:
I know what he's about, he is very important to our country, and to industry, and to competition, and to perpetuating this rat-race.
Free trade, competition, to work out problems. Where competition weeds out bad business right?
Let's just take one of those - free trade - the actual answer to "did Smith believe in free trade?" is "yes,no,depends". What you have to realise that at the level you are at (and ask anyone who works in education to confirm this), to fit everything into the syllabus and make it suitable for the level, a taught course will leave out all of the nuances of what Smith was saying. Within a taught course, you'd have to get to Master's level before you got beyond the pat "father of modern economics, believer in free trade etc etc". It's the same in virtually all subjects - all of the complexity is left out at your level otherwise it becomes unteachable.
Without reading Smith, all you are doing is parroting material that simplifies his positions and place in history to make it easy to teach and easy to understand for a novice. I'll drop out at this point as your level of knowledge is too low to make this interesting for me. All you are doing is parroting the simplified version you have been taught.
Stick to the dimestore guru stuff, it's vague enough that someone under twenty who's had a sheltered life might think you have something new or interesting to say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by joshua221, posted 09-07-2006 10:47 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 85 of 124 (347493)
09-08-2006 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by CK
09-07-2006 8:11 PM


Re: Let's start with a simple question
CK writes:
I know Phat will promote anything with your name on it (and it's pretty shameful he did - an adult should look out for a child, not set him up to look a fool in front of people)
Phat writes:
Thats how he learns to think. Bouncing ideas off of men such as you.
YOU want to consider how silly and immature it makes you look when you try and play the big intellectual and then have to blow off the questions because you don't have a sufficent level of education to engage in the conversation.
This conversation is light---and it is simple practice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by CK, posted 09-07-2006 8:11 PM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Taz, posted 09-08-2006 3:23 AM Phat has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 86 of 124 (347494)
09-08-2006 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
09-08-2006 3:08 AM


Re: Let's start with a simple question
Phat writes:
This conversation is light---and it is simple practice.
No, it's not, phat. I've read and written on Smith many times in college (and actually got decent grades on them), and I still hesitate to talk about his works for a very obvious reason. Apparently, humility is a rarer trait than I thought.
To promote such rant (permit me to call it that) from an individual who apparently thinks memorizing a sentence or two out of cliff notes on a book meant he could now intellectually and authoritatively discuss about the book is not helpful to the individual at all. You've been here a lot longer than I have. I have no doubt that you have seen over and over examples of people jumping into a debate and then finds him/herself (trying to please some people) way over his/her depth. Out of these individuals, how many of them have you seen that learned from their mistakes and not try to swim across the English channel again?
Go ahead and keep letting them commit suicide if you think that's good for them. I'd rather see you fathering them a little bit.
Added by Edit...
I haven't seen any evidence in this thread where the thread starter was trying to practice and improve his debating skills. Perhaps you could point to me a thread that gives a better reflection of this practicing idea?
Edited by gasby, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 09-08-2006 3:08 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Phat, posted 09-08-2006 2:03 PM Taz has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 87 of 124 (347568)
09-08-2006 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Taz
09-08-2006 3:23 AM


Fatherly advice
gasby writes:
I'd rather see you fathering them a little bit.
OK, even though I am not a biological father, I will attempt to share some good advice.
1)Emotion does not settle issues of truth.
2)Tradition is not always right.
3)Do not give human authority figures uncritical allegiance.
4)Be careful of the way you use words. Words are tools. They must be used properly and carefully.
5)Do not force people into limited or false options.
6)Do not use name-calling or put-downs as a debate tactic (argumentum ad hominem).
7)Be careful of accusations based solely on the presumed origin of a given idea or practice (the genetic fallacy). The popularity or unpopularity of something does not make it either true or false.
8)The fact that something is either an old or a new idea does not automatically make it correct (chronological snobbery).
9)Be careful in the use of “guilt by association.” Do not dismiss good ideas or practices by letting your imagination take them to inappropriate extremes.
10)Be prudent when using the “slippery slope” argument (not all slopes are slippery; i.e. “b” does not necessarily follow “a” in all cases.).
11)Be alert to cause and effect errors (post hoc propter hoc).
Make sure that conclusions follow from adequate evidence and support (non sequitur does not follow). Do not accept clichés or popular slogans uncritically.
12)Do not “stack the deck,” i.e. only point out observations that support your pet theory, ignoring all evidence to the contrary.
13)Be wary of generalization. Remember that the truth is not always in the middle.
14)Do not take ideas or people out of context.
15)Understand that spiritual discernment means being ready to admit to weakness or limitation in that very gift; being willing to abandon “shortcuts” in return for the demanding spiritual disciplines that produce lasting fruit; and resisting the temptation to judge the hearts of others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Taz, posted 09-08-2006 3:23 AM Taz has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 88 of 124 (347577)
09-08-2006 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by joshua221
09-07-2006 7:50 PM


prophex
Believe me, I have had ideas of my own, but I don't want power, or money, or to rule over people just like me. Power dies with my body, Money is an illusion. All I can give is my love, all I can do is transcend.
So just what is the solution you offer? Please explain how you can do without the items you listed in the OP.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by joshua221, posted 09-07-2006 7:50 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 89 of 124 (347581)
09-08-2006 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by joshua221
09-07-2006 10:49 PM


prophex:
Don't make me diss Taiwan.
There's no reason to think you know anything more about Asian culture than you know about philosophers or economists. Why would your opinion matter?
I used to play with action figures.
Try reading a book.
.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Brevity.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Punctuation.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by joshua221, posted 09-07-2006 10:49 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 124 (347611)
09-08-2006 7:25 PM


This is just about the funniest thing.
I created a short paragraph. In this short paragraph I used Adam Smith who has come to represent Capitalism's name.
People asked me if I actually knew anything about Adam Smith. Simple people like CK, and Archer, who I have lost all hope for, like mathematicians, businessmen, or studiers of science, had great desire to discuss Adam Smith, and the history of Adam Smith, facts about Adam Smith, Smith's wonderfully complex theories that are so beyond me. Things that I tried telling them didn't matter. But like the man in the cave I was told to go away.
This all may seem ludacris coming from someone who hasn't even read Adam Smith, viewed as a weakness, and milked for all that it was worth by people who would rather focus on my personal credentials, rather than the actual ideas of my initial post. I was told to go read a book, and told that I could not have a decent discussion with someone who is quite blantantly the definition of a simpleton, who can't think outside of what a book based on trivialities has to say.
I am quite amazed at how this all went down. Disgusted actually.
Can't you see that economic theory has no bearing on reality, it's an illusion, open your eyes.
I GUESS I'M JUST TRYING TO SAY THAT THIS POST WASN'T ABOUT YOUR DEAD THEORIES THAT HOLD NO IMPORTANCE IN THE EYES OF GOD, AND THANK YOU ALL FOR SUCKING ME INTO IT, AND BRINGING ME DOWN WITH YOU INTO THE FIERY PITS OF MEANINGLESSNESS, MEDIOCRITY, AND MINDLESSNESS.
None of you know anything.. jar was right, this discussion is worthless. You don't deserve me, you don't deserve my thoughts, you don't deserve any of what I can tell you. Because you ignore it as it hits you in the face, you can't comprehend it, and you respond spouting what is fake. You respond with nothing but ignorance, and you claim it is me who is ignorant.
You aren't going to get it even now.
You are most likely going to respond saying I should go read the works of Smith. But there is no brilliance there, there is only emptiness, and false truths.
Anti-Christ.

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by jar, posted 09-08-2006 7:48 PM joshua221 has replied
 Message 92 by nwr, posted 09-08-2006 8:06 PM joshua221 has replied
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 09-09-2006 3:54 AM joshua221 has not replied

  
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