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Author Topic:   Politcally Correct Christ
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 3 of 301 (346373)
09-04-2006 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
09-03-2006 2:08 PM


Does anyone think that it is appropriate to change the meaning of the text in order to be 'sensitive' to the readers feelings or should anyone wanting to read the Bible take it for its face value?
I think these days people tend to view everything in light of insane streaching of PC and inclusiveness. some sensitivity is good but this new bible is insanity
even though i am not a christian, i agree with you, this is stupid and ruins the whole idea of christian beliefs.
I mean son of man to the human one? or changing john 1:14, thats just scary to do this, it undermines the authors views of god and jesus
now thats a new one father-mother? who says that? only ratical feminists seem to call god her
changing everything in the bible not to offend some people is just silly when the bible is an archaic text with lots of stuff we view as sexist and wrong, but to butcher it because you don't like it is just blasphemy!
i consider this along with anyone chopping up and reinterperating any ancient texts, that includes the way creationists do this as well
thats just to point out imo that rewriting a text to fit agendas they don't inspouse is just wrong in any cases

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-03-2006 2:08 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-04-2006 11:18 AM ReverendDG has replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 39 of 301 (346548)
09-04-2006 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Hyroglyphx
09-04-2006 11:18 AM


Re: Sensitivity training
The Word means what it says and says what it means. But this push in the West for sensitivity training has been going on now for a good 15 years steadily.
i'm not sure its 15 years but more like a good 50 years, antropology is built on being sensitive to other cultures, to me i see the 15 years as being an extremist view of cultural sensitivity to the point that we can say nothing without fearing some offence. but this view is a distortion or as far extreme you can get, nor is it common, dispite some peoples claims it is common
Yeah, I know you think Christianity is archaic and looking from the outside in I understand your view, perhaps more than some atheist/agnostics could ever believe, but yes, this is a bit much.
no i don't think its archaic, at least not if you understand where it came from and why it says the things it does. You just can't use laws from that time for this time or think the same way, that just is wrong, at last imo you should have laws and understanding based for your day and age not one from two thousand years ago
Well, the Divinci Code spins the yarn that the early Church was out to eradicate the matriarchal notion of female pagan deities so that it could institute its own patriarchal rule. This, of course, is pushing the boundaries of reality because the Tanakh (Old Test) came thousands of years before and so ascribes male attributes to Yahweh long before there ever was anything known as a 'Church.' But its been said that the Shekina glory of God expresses feminine attributes. I don't ascribe to an athropomorphic God, however, changing the text is just, no.
yes the devinci code does do that but being fiction with no evidence i think like many christians, its wrong, but i have different reasons.
the fact is the church was out to replace the older gods with jesus, or why take up christmas easter and other non-christian holidays?
in our eyes the tanakh is sexist, arach reminded me that its purely a product of thier culture and to pass judgement from our stand point is not really good or worth it, to change this changes more about the text than just the words, it changes the spirit of the text. this is what they beleived, to change this is to destroy the legecy of a people, even if we find it sexist and disturbing
as for god being both sexes, this is true, many scientists have found that the early hebrews tried to incorprarate both male and female attributes to yehwah to satisfy people who worried about crops and rain and children, which were all female gods areas. people would fear for these things because they didn't think yehwah could effect them
Well, that's just it. If someone wants to view the Bible as sexist or misogynistic or whatever other denunciations they feel are expressed within the text, then simply don't believe in it. But to change the Word in an attempt, I guess, to trick people into liking it better is something demeaning to the atheists who don't like it for a reason. I believe in miracels. The miracle in this case is that the translators hands were not at once palsied for their blasphemy.
most of the reasons for people disliking the bible is the changes in culture over the last 500 years. they also feel that christians today try to deny these facts. the bible is sexist and misogynistic and racist and religiously bias, but thats the way people were.
from our standpoint this is wrong so realisticly we can not place full value on this text as being the center of our morality, at least not in america, it just doesn't work
But to change the Word in an attempt, I guess, to trick people into liking it better is something demeaning to the atheists who don't like it for a reason.
i think its to satisfy those that get hung up on the words used, athiests i think wouldn't care, unless they were trying to argue for one view based on the authors words, i think everyone has done this but, mainly because people say this is the word of god and its written by god
I believe in miracels. The miracle in this case is that the translators hands were not at once palsied for their blasphemy.
maybe, but the translaters of the kjv wern't eather, considering how wrong they were too

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-04-2006 11:18 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 40 of 301 (346550)
09-04-2006 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by nator
09-04-2006 6:25 PM


Re: Eclectics of the world rejoice!
We can use "they" as a gender neutral pronoun.
the problem i see with doing this is we do not use this term for one person we use it for more than one, unless we change how we use all of our words this really doesn't work
reminds me of my college english teacher, but she was the other way around, she didn't like the fact that people were trying to insert 'thier' instead of the long accepted 'his' when you do not know the subject
while i agree we may need a new gender neutral word in english i don't think co-opting another word that means something else will work

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by nator, posted 09-04-2006 6:25 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Modulous, posted 09-05-2006 3:17 AM ReverendDG has replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 43 of 301 (346604)
09-05-2006 3:55 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Modulous
09-05-2006 3:17 AM


Re: Eclectics of the world rejoice!
Speak for yourself, I do it all the time. I was speaking to one of my cusomers earlier - they do it to.
sure i do this too, it doesn't mean it should be done, its confusing and bad english.
i'm a very literal minded person so reading they or their or whatever does throw me off though. i really was refering to formal usage and writing, it is really just bad form.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by nator, posted 09-05-2006 8:55 AM ReverendDG has not replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 116 of 301 (348157)
09-11-2006 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by ringo
09-10-2006 2:16 PM


The "modern", "politically correct" position is exactly what Jesus preached: that you don't have to go through a lot of rituals to be "saved" - you just have to behave yourself.
i'm not sure why he thinks this isn't a real position, i've heard this many times from many people in many different ways, but basicly the same core belief.
has robin really read anything about christian beliefs and viewpoints?
even the NT sugests this, being that they attack what they consider the worse of the bunch for legelism, pharisees

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by ringo, posted 09-10-2006 2:16 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by jar, posted 09-11-2006 4:55 PM ReverendDG has replied
 Message 123 by robinrohan, posted 09-11-2006 7:05 PM ReverendDG has replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 121 of 301 (348193)
09-11-2006 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by jar
09-11-2006 4:55 PM


Well, actually both extremes were cited, Sadducees and Pharisees. The biggest difference is the the Pharisee movement was relatively short lived and none of their documents have yet been found. The only real difference betwen the two is that the former seemed to uphold a strict interpretation of the written Laws while the later held the oral tradition as strictly as the written.
true, but i think because they had more run-ins with the pharisees, the authors talked about them more, plus the pharisees held goverment positions
the sadducees are what you mean about the documents and the length of time they existed, the only places they are known from are from enemy writings, plus the sadducees didn't believe in the spirit or the after life, the pharisees did

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by jar, posted 09-11-2006 4:55 PM jar has not replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 124 of 301 (348197)
09-11-2006 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by jar
09-11-2006 6:53 PM


There are NO Pharisee documents that I know of. And, as pointed out above, the biggest difference we know of between the two sects is that the Pharisee used a strict interpretation of both the oral and written Laws while the Sadducees held to a strict interpretation of the Torah and did not consider the oral tradition as authoritive. The Pharisees seem to have more a democratization of Judaism, moving it out of the Temples.
sorry jar she is right, you are thinking of the sadducees not the pharicees, they did become orthodox judaism. the sadducees on the other hand disspeared aftter the temple fell. there are no writtings left of the sadducees, the talmud is the pharisees oral writings. as i said in the last post the sadducees are known only by what other sects wrote about them. they only believed the first five books were imspired by god, everything else is not.
Both groups were condemned by Jesus for their hypocrisy.
for different reasons, sadducees for disbelieving in the spirit and reserrection or angels
pharisees for making up rules they wouldn't bother following and reading old laws in an anal retentive way - or not reading the spirit of the words

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by jar, posted 09-11-2006 6:53 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by jar, posted 09-11-2006 7:26 PM ReverendDG has not replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 125 of 301 (348200)
09-11-2006 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by robinrohan
09-11-2006 7:05 PM


I read something about Christ dying for the sins of mankind.
But then if one is "God-inspired," which I am not, one can apparently interpret any Biblical passage any way one feels like.
This we call "modernization."
no this is not modernization, i think you need to figure out what that is before you redefine what they really mean
wiki entry: Modernization theory - Wikipedia
i guess if you want to paint progress as being bad thats fine,sad but fine its your choice to do so. My point was that religion is subjective and no one shares the same views on the same subject or there would be one religion and no one would argue over this.
the fact that you don't bother to learn what people believe falls on your head not someone elses, just like its mine to know it too, as always you can't paint everyone with the same brush
Edited by ReverendDG, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by robinrohan, posted 09-11-2006 7:05 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by robinrohan, posted 09-11-2006 7:31 PM ReverendDG has replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 128 of 301 (348229)
09-11-2006 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by robinrohan
09-11-2006 7:31 PM


I'm talking about what it says in a book. To my mind, there's a lot about Christ dying for our sins in the Bible, but Jar and Ringo find it plausible to reject that idea, apparently thinking that they can just interpret a passage any way they care to to make it fit with their modern beliefs. That doesn't sound very legitimate to me.
evidence please, chapter, verse too. other wise i don't think this makes much sense. by the way every religion interpretates things based on thier "modern" beliefs. do you really think people believe what they believe 200 years ago? 500? 1000? if you do i think you need to read more about religion
now people do believe what ringo quoted, you just don't agree with that interpretation, so its just a confliction of what a book says between people. jesus also shows himself that he didn't consider a lot of the laws the people of his day considered vital to gods worship important, but to be faithful in belief of god, which is what ringo quoted you as saying. He is right and many people consider this as true. yes jesus died for our sins, and calvinists say you need gods grace,but they also believe that you don't need to watch what you eat to be saved eather
I don't know what you are referring to exactly, but if you are talking about Ringo's beliefs, I'm going to assume that he believes what Jar believes since he won't tell me straight out. I know exactly what Jar believes.
i was saying that you could go look at ringos posts instead of badgering him about what he believes in total, since it seems you want to dissect his views on everything

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by robinrohan, posted 09-11-2006 7:31 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
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