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Author Topic:   How Many Mutations Does Each Human Have?
NosyNed
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Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 1 of 20 (348220)
09-11-2006 8:36 PM


I'ver read here (and other places) and even posted that each individual human has from around 5 to maybe 100 mutations.
But how do we know that?
For here a mutation is a difference in genetics in an individual from his parents that is not a result of the meiosis processes.
I would accept mouse studies as being applicable to humans. Perhaps fruit flies but might consider bacterial studies to be rather a large extrapolation.
This belongs in bio evol or miscelaneous I think.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 6 of 20 (348375)
09-12-2006 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Codegate
09-12-2006 10:20 AM


Determing the number
In humans it has been determined that between
generations approximately one out of one billion base pairs is substituted
in this manner, for an average of three new germ line mutations carried by
any given individual.
"It has been determined" -- how?
All I've seen in some googling is that there are comparisons between human and chimps done to calculate a mutation rate. This is, to me, in this context, circular. Until we determine that the mutations are happening we can't assume that they are the sources of differences.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 10 of 20 (348404)
09-12-2006 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Ben!
09-12-2006 12:14 PM


Sex Cell Mutations
Does that mean that this topic should really focus on mutation rates in sex cells only, or am I not understanding something properly?
Yes, sort of.
When a new individual is born they have a number of mutations. These may have come from mutations in the sex cells of their parents and bee incorporated into the egg and sperm produced by those. Or they may have come about at the moment of creation of the particular egg and/or sperm that gave rise to that one individual.
I guess I'm interested in both. The result is an indivdual with genetics that are NOT in most of the cells of either of it's parents. If the mutation occured in the gamet producing cells of it's parents I'm willing to count that even if maybe that is a slight twist on the theme.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 11 of 20 (348405)
09-12-2006 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by crashfrog
09-12-2006 1:06 PM


Re: Determing the number
I would like to see anything that does that kind of direct measure of the DNA copying mechanisms error rate.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 12 of 20 (348406)
09-12-2006 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by crashfrog
09-12-2006 1:06 PM


Source of differences
Where else are the differences coming from? Pluto?
I was pointing out that the studies I found assumed that the differences between us and chimps came from mutations. That can't be used, yet, as a back up for the mutations being a source of those differences.
We are arguing about where the source of differences comes from in other threads.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 14 of 20 (348471)
09-12-2006 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Wounded King
09-12-2006 2:56 PM


Translating the Abstract
Ok, maybe. Let me try to translate the abstract. I hope you and others can confirm my translation.
They mutation rate was estimated by using other studies that have rates at specific loci (positions in the genes) and other studies that looked directly at new (because they weren't causing illness in the parents I presume -- the point of the "dominant" in the note) mutations that are seen because they cause disease.
From these they arrive at an estimate of the mutation rate.
A reason why this might be taken as meaningful is because the independent result matches with the 'historic' extrapolation in the differences between us and chimps.
The results also show that there is agreement (I don't know the stats well enough to say how well it agrees) between different loci.
The rest discusses the kinds of mutations and how they are related.
The fact that the simpler mutations (and less likely to result in a non-viable) organisms are far more common also supports the conclusion.
I don't know the significance of: "Rates of different kinds of mutations are strongly correlated across loci."

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 18 of 20 (349246)
09-15-2006 4:23 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by AnswersInGenitals
09-15-2006 3:56 AM


Re: Re: Bump for Goo
a "bump" is a reply that only serves to bring an older thread back to the top of the recently posted list.

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