Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   George Bush leads us into the world of Kafka.
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 8 of 150 (349378)
09-15-2006 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Coragyps
09-15-2006 3:27 PM


let's see, methinks t'would be the ministry of love, not truth. Though, the WPS is defintely from the MoT.
what were the four ministries?
love, truth, peace, and damn, can't remember the last.
(MiniPax, MiniLuv, MiniTru, ???)

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Coragyps, posted 09-15-2006 3:27 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by subbie, posted 09-15-2006 4:30 PM kuresu has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 45 of 150 (349897)
09-18-2006 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Hyroglyphx
09-17-2006 12:25 PM


Re: A general reply
This allegation comes primarily from those of a more leftist appeal, which I find ironic, being that socialist nations have a far worse track record of illegal spying
you mean to tell me that the USSR and China are communisitic? hah!
they stopped being communists (much less socialists) when they installed a dictator and followed facsist lines. By the time of Stalin, the USSR was communist in name only. The socialist state I'm familiar with, ie Sweden, is not known for any secret police. just Germany (under Nazi rule), the USSR, China, and Oceania. (hint--all of them were f******t states)
oh, and leftist is anywhere from just left of moderate all the way to true communism. As in, I'm a leftist moderate, but I ain't no commie--I'm a capitalist.

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-17-2006 12:25 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-19-2006 1:54 PM kuresu has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 50 of 150 (350075)
09-18-2006 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Legend
09-18-2006 6:00 PM


Re: A general reply
and then you have the people who drive under the speed limit. It's much better to follow the speed of traffic (in denver, that's anywhere from 90 to 15 mph) then stick to the speed limit. Granted, at 15 mph, that's due to gridlock. Any yahoo dumb enough to drive 55mph (the speed limit) while the rest of us are doing 80-90, well, . . .

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Legend, posted 09-18-2006 6:00 PM Legend has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 69 of 150 (350366)
09-19-2006 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Hyroglyphx
09-19-2006 1:54 PM


Re: A general reply
what is communism? put simply, it is an economic system where all goods are distributed equally among the people. The other facet is that the people are the dictator, and own all the property. In other words, no individual property. Now then, wouldn't you say that treating the commie party better than your own people constitutes a violation of communism? If they were actually communist, there people would be better off. Instead, the powerful are just soaking up the resources for themselves. As I said, communist in name only.
I never contended that they did not spy on their own people. I challenged your assertion that it was truly communist nations that did this. Answer me this--why would a government that provides to all equally fear the people? why did, and do, these governments feel the need to spy on their own people in order to maintian their power? could it be that something is wrong, that the state is lying to the people? You know, like 1984?. I mentioned oceania for a reason--it is a socialist state in name only. why? You have an upper class. In animal farm, another critique of the failures of communism (this time of the russian revolution) is this statement: All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
Tell me, how is this communism? No state today is a true communistic nation. There has never been, in the modern world, a communist nation.
As to the last statement you make--make that clear from the beginning. It's similar to saying all christians piss me off, or all muslims are fanatics, or all gays are evil. Blanket statements hardly ever cut it. So when you say the left, that is, as I stated, anywhere from just left of moderate to true communism.

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-19-2006 1:54 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-19-2006 3:57 PM kuresu has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 90 of 150 (350446)
09-19-2006 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Hyroglyphx
09-19-2006 3:57 PM


Re: A general reply
The point is in the irony that those who demonize the Patriot Act tend to be of a more liberal persuasion, seemingly blind to the fact that its been Communist (Leftist) nations who have commited the most heinous offenses against the civil liberties of people.
this is what I've been arguing about. Those so-called communist nations AREN'T LEFTIST. leftist ideology entails eqalitarian concepts--everybody is equal, period. If you have a system that favors one over the other, that system, by it's very own nation, can't be leftist. Those "communist" nations favor party members over the rest of the populace--the best example (though fictional) is 1984 and Animal Farm.
So no, it's not ironic that leftists are decrying the loss of liberties (especially if you include the classical liberals, which are to the left), because the "communist" nations aren't, and weren't, leftist. sheez . . .

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-19-2006 3:57 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-19-2006 9:03 PM kuresu has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 94 of 150 (350458)
09-19-2006 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Jaderis
09-19-2006 6:27 PM


Re: A general reply
don't forget the unforgivable crime of putting our soldiers in Saudia Arabia during the first gulf war. Oh my god, they've put infidels on holy soil. It's one of the bigger reasons Osama has, especially if yuo consider al-Queda to be an at least partly religious movement.
and then there's the good old standby--you attack those who are strong, who are powerful. Those who are strong, powerful, breed resentment from those who aren't. And put simply, the US is powerful. Henceforth, we are the number one target. You don't hate, you don't attack Belgium. They aren't powerful. You hate the US, you attack the US, because it is powerful.
(oh, and power is more than just military power, but that's a pretty good chunk of it).

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Jaderis, posted 09-19-2006 6:27 PM Jaderis has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Legend, posted 09-19-2006 7:08 PM kuresu has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 99 of 150 (350470)
09-19-2006 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Legend
09-19-2006 7:08 PM


Re: A general reply
at the risk of continuing being OT:
I do not believe that the muslims woke up one day and decided to attack us. I'm just saying that as we are the most powerful (for now at any rate, and even that's questionable) nation on the planet. Never mind. Let me ask you this: do you resent those that have more power than you? If you could, would you knock them down a bit, or more?
All the other stuff you mentioned are good reasons, and don't forget, I did include the religious one--heathens on holy soil. It's just that this can't be ignored either--it's not just muslim terrorists against us. North Korea and Iran (now, at any rate) are against us. And probably some people I don't know about. And sure, they've got legitimate reasons to be against us. But deep down, on some level, it boils down to resentment--they've got more power, they've got more resources, they're richer, they're better off, and damn it, we just can't stand it.

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Legend, posted 09-19-2006 7:08 PM Legend has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 103 of 150 (350503)
09-19-2006 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Hyroglyphx
09-19-2006 9:38 PM


Re: A general reply
one tiny nitpick for now:
Terrorism will not stop until Islamofascism is removed from the general population of Muslims or until the US becomes a Muslim nation.
there you go again with blanket statements. Is McVeigh not a terrorist? Is the IRA not terrorist? there are more than just the muslim terrorists in this world. You're last sentence doesn't qualify the word terrorist, only that those in the ME say until the US is a mulsim nation, or whatever, terrorism will continue. They didn't pick brand or religion or cause. hmm . . .

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-19-2006 9:38 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 108 of 150 (350526)
09-19-2006 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Hyroglyphx
09-19-2006 9:03 PM


Re: A general reply
Basically, whenever a nation or system that does anything that could be construed as negative aren't Leftist by your default plan, even when all their stated ideals, goals, and programs elucidate leftist idealogies, they aren't in fact apart of "the Left?
what's the point of this statement? It's like saying: "they're blue, but even though they espouse red, they aren't, hence they're blue". It's on of those duh! statements. Of course they aren't part of they aren't communist, much less leftist, when they put one group of people above the others and subjugated the lesser group's rights. I don't recall communism being about subjugating people's rights, just being about putting people on an equal footing, gov't and economic wise.
let me ask you this:
if someone goes around shouting that they understand the bible, they know it's true meaning, that A and E weren't punished, but freed, and called themselves christians, would you accept them as christian? After all, everything else is the same--particularly the need of christ as savior, golden rule, et al.
No, the "communist" countries were not true communistic countries-they were, at best, conservative.
What is the left? it's a whole range of issues, including "true communism", not the fake shit that the USSR, Cuba, China, Venezuela, et al have. Their "communism" is nothing more than facsism--I take it you're familiar with the political ideology circle? Tell me, how was Stalin's USSR different from Hitler's Germany? How was Mao's?
If they want to call themselves Communist, they can go right ahead--doesn't change the facts. They do not follow the basic tenets of Marx's communism, never mind Leninism-Marxism. Jar at least follows the most basic tenet in Chrisianity--Christ as your savior.

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-19-2006 9:03 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 109 of 150 (350527)
09-19-2006 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Hyroglyphx
09-19-2006 10:48 PM


Re: A general reply
And what happens when you have a judiciary, congress, and presidency, in control of one party? Those checks and balances begin to breakdown. It is not congress's job to pass what the president wants passed. It is not the job of the judiciary to quitely submit to what violations the congress passes. It is the duty of each branch to oppose the other branches, assuring that no single one gets too powerful. It isthe job of the people to insure that coalitions between congress and president do not happen.
Rome had a senate, consul, and a lot of other checks. And what happened when Julius got in a bunch of friends? Well, bye-bye republic, hello empire and dictator.

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-19-2006 10:48 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 129 of 150 (351378)
09-22-2006 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by nwr
09-22-2006 1:00 PM


Re: a comment for our american friends.
it all stems from the whole concept of president being the head of the party (which is crap) and the whole republican platform of--we can't back out, we're fighting to protect ourselves, and oh yeah, we're gonna scare the shit out of you with the terrorist threat.

Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by nwr, posted 09-22-2006 1:00 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024