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Author Topic:   George Bush leads us into the world of Kafka.
AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 31 of 150 (349782)
09-17-2006 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by ramoss
09-17-2006 12:10 PM


And the Thermodynamicists* who tell us the decline started about 13,700,000,000 bce. (*This is a little understood and much persecuted religious sect with a very fatalistic docterine. They are best know for their ultraconservative 1st commandment.)

This message is a reply to:
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Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 32 of 150 (349784)
09-17-2006 1:04 PM


a comment for our american friends.
at the end of the day, a siginificant number of you guys (and girls) voted for this and continue to support this.
quote:
The man who trades basic liberties for temporary security does not deserve either and will end up getting neither.
- Benjamin Franklin
'nough said.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

Replies to this message:
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Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 33 of 150 (349788)
09-17-2006 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Hyroglyphx
09-17-2006 12:25 PM


Re: A general reply
nemesis writes:
The US was attacked, unprovoked,....
wooaaaaa.... you should really think more carefully about making statements like that.
I sincerely hope the word "unprovoked" popped in there as the result of a copy and paste accident rather than a reasoning process.
Next you'll be telling us that those murderous Iraqi civilians attack innocent US soldiers in downtown Baghdad totally unprovoked !

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-17-2006 12:25 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Chiroptera, posted 09-17-2006 1:26 PM Legend has replied
 Message 55 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-19-2006 11:27 AM Legend has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 150 (349791)
09-17-2006 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Legend
09-17-2006 1:12 PM


Re: A general reply
I guess the attack was unprovoked in the same way that people who were willing to die in order to carry out their mission are cowards.
Words have one important function: to constrain thought along the lines approved by our owners and leaders.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Legend, posted 09-17-2006 1:12 PM Legend has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Legend, posted 09-17-2006 2:10 PM Chiroptera has not replied
 Message 36 by Coragyps, posted 09-17-2006 2:14 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 35 of 150 (349795)
09-17-2006 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Chiroptera
09-17-2006 1:26 PM


Re: A general reply
Chiroptera writes:
Words have one important function: to constrain thought along the lines approved by our owners and leaders.
Too right! a good example here in Britain is the Thought Police's term for speed cameras: 'safety cameras', though they have very little to do with safety and a much more accurate moniker would be 'money cameras'.
If people get used to calling them 'safety-cameras', however, they will tend to think they're there for their own good, rather than the establishment's.
Similarly, if people in the US tend to think of the terrorists' attacks as 'unprovoked' they will find it much easier to accept and approve aggresive, illegal and immoral actions, such as the current Iraq/Afghanistan saga or the Kafka-esque methods Bush is trying to establish, as per the OP.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

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Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 36 of 150 (349797)
09-17-2006 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Chiroptera
09-17-2006 1:26 PM


Re: A general reply
same way that people who were willing to die in order to carry out their mission are cowards.
Amen, Brother Bat! That phrasing still bugs me five years after the fact. Of all the things you can call the 9/11 hijackers, "coward" is one of the least accurate.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 150 (349801)
09-17-2006 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Coragyps
09-17-2006 2:14 PM


Missed today's Two Minutes Hate, didn't you?
Honesty requires me to point out that I am not the first to mention this. I believe the first was Bill Maher shortly after 9/11.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Coragyps, posted 09-17-2006 3:21 PM Chiroptera has not replied
 Message 41 by anglagard, posted 09-17-2006 6:02 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 38 of 150 (349802)
09-17-2006 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Chiroptera
09-17-2006 3:06 PM


Re: Missed today's Two Minutes Hate, didn't you?
Dammit! I need to watch the Tube more!

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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 39 of 150 (349803)
09-17-2006 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Hyroglyphx
09-17-2006 12:25 PM


Re: A general reply
I don't see America as the Gestapo or the Stasi, who were truly undermining people's civil liberties.
I don't think the worry is that we have reached that level. The problem is that we are heading that way and the people who are pushing for it are using the exact same arguments.
The fact is that we have lost civil liberties, and more losses are being requested. At the same time, and this is worse still, power is being centralized to a single figure where questioning that figure is treated as dangerous, traitorous.
No one seemed to mind before because they weren't aware of what is going on.
I'm not sure what that point means. Yeah, most people don't have problems with the things they don't know about. It seems to me the fact that people do have problems once they find out about it is of interest when deciding whether it is worthy.
I mean, afterall its not like the CIA is getting their jollies by watching you bathe. It isn't anything like that.
Right but most people aren't threatening the US by taking a bath. And what's more free people tend to get their jollies by bathing without someone potentially spying on them.
It's not about what they won't do, its about what we have a right not to have them doing.
My solution: Accept Jesus.
I'll totally grant you that makes more sense and would have had better results than invading Iraq.

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-17-2006 12:25 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 40 of 150 (349824)
09-17-2006 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Legend
09-17-2006 1:04 PM


Re: a comment for our american friends.
at the end of the day, a siginificant number of you guys (and girls) voted for this and continue to support this.
He didn't do it without Blair, my glass-house-dwelling friend. I notice that you all brought him back for another go-around, and the thing was, your election was legitimate.

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anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 41 of 150 (349826)
09-17-2006 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Chiroptera
09-17-2006 3:06 PM


Maher and Freedom of Speech
Chiroptera writes:
Honesty requires me to point out that I am not the first to mention this. I believe the first was Bill Maher shortly after 9/11.
And for saying that the 9/11 hijackers were not cowards, Maher's Show, ironically called Politically Incorrect, was cancelled.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 42 of 150 (349831)
09-17-2006 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Hyroglyphx
09-17-2006 12:25 PM


Re: A general reply
I mean, afterall its not like the CIA is getting their jollies by watching you bathe. It isn't anything like that.
What makes you think that? Your natural faith in the eternal human goodness of the unwatched watchman?
In fact, every time you have a system of visual surveliance, the guys watching the monitors spend far more time scoping out the babes than actually watching for suspicous activity or whatever.
But you can't blame the US government for trying to protect itself.
I can, actually. The US government doesn't exist to protect itself; it exists to protect us. The US government, in fact, has absolutely no business taking any sort of steps to protect itself. The government should be vulnerable at all times. How else do we ensure its honesty?
The US was attacked, unprovoked, a grand total of 8 times before they responded to the terrorist threat with the Kohbar Towers, USS Cole, the first WTC bombing, etc.
That's nonsense. At that time, we responded to the terrorist threat in exactly the proper way - as a law enforcement problem - with exactly the proper results. Maybe you forgot that the first time the Towers were attacked, we actually caught and convicted the mastermind?
My solution: Accept Jesus.
Practically everybody in the government, starting at the top and working down, has done that and done it often. Doesn't seem to be working.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-17-2006 12:25 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 43 of 150 (349862)
09-17-2006 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Hyroglyphx
09-17-2006 12:25 PM


Re: A general reply
nemesis writes:
My solution: Accept Jesus.
When was the last time you heard about a terrorist that was gay? I must, therefore, conclude that gay people are incapable of being terrorists. Therefore, we should promote gayism more. Perhaps a few indoctrination classes here and there in our school systems should do it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-17-2006 12:25 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 44 of 150 (349864)
09-17-2006 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by crashfrog
09-16-2006 5:31 PM


Re: What are we supposed to do about it?
crashfrog writes:
You don't get it yet. People aren't. George Bush has never won a presidental election.
I must admit that I do not know enough details about politics like I should. Please be more specific!
Your blame, as I said, is very much misplaced. What on Earth do you think the American public have to do with the policies of the American government?
I'll leave the alternate options to the experts.

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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 45 of 150 (349897)
09-18-2006 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Hyroglyphx
09-17-2006 12:25 PM


Re: A general reply
This allegation comes primarily from those of a more leftist appeal, which I find ironic, being that socialist nations have a far worse track record of illegal spying
you mean to tell me that the USSR and China are communisitic? hah!
they stopped being communists (much less socialists) when they installed a dictator and followed facsist lines. By the time of Stalin, the USSR was communist in name only. The socialist state I'm familiar with, ie Sweden, is not known for any secret police. just Germany (under Nazi rule), the USSR, China, and Oceania. (hint--all of them were f******t states)
oh, and leftist is anywhere from just left of moderate all the way to true communism. As in, I'm a leftist moderate, but I ain't no commie--I'm a capitalist.

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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