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Author Topic:   Created in the image of God
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 105 (3429)
02-04-2002 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Minnemooseus
02-03-2002 10:59 PM


"I don't think anyone here is out to trash the Bible. There is a lot there, but you can't be tied up in a rigid, literal reading."
--I know you can't take everything literally, it takes a bit of human understanding and a little bit of common sence to understand it.
"I left my resume in the other computer (the "fast" one). - Why is my 66 MHz 486 kicking my 800 MHz Athlon's butt on the internet?"
--Wow, I havent had a 486 66Mhz in like..well I never had one! Our first was a 90Mhz, that was a good ol 95' comp, right after win95 came out
But I got a 33Mhz 486 mini 85' labtop, its nice for typing and some little entertainment with little games. but anyways, Its probley cause ur 66 is on a faster modem, probley has a cable, and ur 800 has a 56k or something, this would make an emense difference.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-03-2002 10:59 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 105 (3432)
02-04-2002 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by JClarke
02-04-2002 10:31 PM


"--While you are right about HIV not being present in saliva, the rest has little scientific backing. First of all, green monkeys are from Africa not South America. Next, the green monkey theory is no longer supported as the origin of HIV. It was proposed by Robert Gallo in the early 80's and later discredited. Most scientists studying HIV believe it came from SIV from a sooty mangabey or chimpanze or both. In Western Africa chimps were commonly kept for food and as pets. The process of butchering monkeys for food provides an easy way for HIV to infect humans. Much more likely then monkey sex, which in my opinion is most likely fictional or a exageration of certain practices based on cultural bias."
--Thanks for the new information, so how exactly was the 'Green monkey theory' discredited? At least we know it would have come from some sort of monkey or chimp and in the family.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by JClarke, posted 02-04-2002 10:31 PM JClarke has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by JClarke, posted 02-04-2002 11:08 PM TrueCreation has not replied

  
JClarke
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 105 (3433)
02-04-2002 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by TrueCreation
02-04-2002 10:47 PM


"Thanks for the new information, so how exactly was the 'Green monkey theory' discredited? At least we know it would have come from some sort of monkey or chimp and in the family."
--Samples of SIV's have been taken from many different groups of monkey's and the samples from sooty mangabey are close to being geneticly identical to HIV-2. For HIV-1, the most similar samples are from chimpanzes though the match is not a close as in HIV-2. More samples are being collected by various groups which could be closer but I think these are the two best possiblities.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by TrueCreation, posted 02-04-2002 10:47 PM TrueCreation has not replied

  
LudvanB
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 105 (3436)
02-05-2002 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by TrueCreation
02-04-2002 10:22 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"Why don't you perform blood sacrifice on the altar anymore, even though it is commanded in Leviticus? In fact, the first NINE chapters of Leviticus concerns itself with bloody sacrifice. Far less time is spent on homosexuality."
--Untill Jesus was crusifide, this was true and we would still have to do it, but Jesus was the last sacrifice paying for all our sins.
"15:19-30, 33 God lays down the law on menstruating women. Such women are to God both filthy and sinful, and anyone who comes near them is contaminated by them."
--You streched them outragiously, God in no way said they were filthy or sinful, God said they were unclean, and as depicted throughout the rest of leviticus, this means that a disease is easilly transmitted, thus menstruating women. It also sais men who discharge are unclean also, how ironic? Not ironic at all today actually, since knowledge has increased as is also prophesied in the bible, though is obvious that knowledge would increase, it is odd to know that it increases in such a way as if the rapture were to happen any minute now, but anyways.
"12:1-8 Women are dirty and sinful after childbirth, so God prescribes rituals for their purification. If a boy is born, the
mother is unclean for 7 days and must be purified for 33 days; but if a girl is born, the mother is unclean for 14 days and be
purified for 66 days. This is because, in the eyes of God, girls are twice as dirty as boys."
--I think you are reading the wrong bible or something, it did not say they werre dirty or sinful after childbirth. I am not sure what would be the difference of the 33 or 66 days you would have to ask some sort of doctor for an answer to that. But I know off the top of my head the other, as the bleeding occuring after childbirth is obviously a indictation of uncleaness, also it is odd how circumsision is to be done on the 8th day, as it is done today if you want to have a baby circumsised the 8th day is the time when least possibility of illment or infection will occur.
"God really doesn't like women, does he?"
--You stretch the truth way too far, but also note that it wasn't adam who ate the apple, it was eve.
"Don't round the corners of your head or mar the corners of your beard. 19:27"
--I find it odd how you only quote versus like these, why not quote some like this:
"`Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it. "
"`Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
"`Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will turn to prostitution and be filled with wickedness.
--Why not any of these? Is it your just seaking the ones that appeal to you?
"Children who curse their parents, adulterers, and homosexuals must be killed. 20:9-12"
--Yup, good thing we have a medium today, that is, we have Jesus.
"Woman with "familiar spirits" must be stoned to death. 20:27"
--That is, a man or woman that is a medium/sorcerer.
"A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'"
"The unchaste daughters of priests must be burnt to death. 21:9"
--You make it sound so much like it isn't.
"`If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire."
"Handicapped people must not approach the altar. 21:16-23"
--You make it sound so bad, I would like a defect in those days, it basically says that they don't have to do this, so they are not to go near the alter,
21:22 - "He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food;"
21:23 - "I am the LORD, who sanctifies them; or who sets them apart as holy "
Sanctified means:
-To set apart for sacred use; consecrate.
-To make holy; purify.
-To give social or moral sanction to.
-To make productive of holiness or spiritual blessing.
--To be crippled was almost a blessing.
"Cursers and blasphemers must be stoned to death. 24:16, 24"
--Sure must, as goes for God's people too, you make it sound so bad, luckly we don't live in that day and age, we have Jesus.
"God places a dollar value on human life; with women worth less than men. 27:3-7"
--How is this bad, Eve picked the apple and gave it to adam, it wasn't the other way around, if you are to assume that any of these quotes make relevance, you must assume the adam and eve 'myth' is true.
"11:10-12 Clams, oysters, crabs and lobsters are abominations to God."
--I believe such crustaceans can carry many diseases harmful to us, in that day, it would have been a safty rule, such as God sure didn't want them to eat them.
"18:29, 19:8 "Whosoever shall commit any of these abominations ... shall be cut off from among their people."
--Yup, pretty smart of God, otherwize plagues and diseases would run rampent.
"19:18 "Love thy neighbor as thyself." This is by far the best verse in Leviticus, and one of the best in the entire bible. It
seems out of place here, however, since in the next chapter God orders us to kill wizards (20:6), children who are
disrespectful toward their parents (20:9), adulterers (20:10), and homosexuals (20:13). And throughout the Old Testament,
God encourages the Israelites to kill their neighbors every chance they get. (See Numbers 31 and 1 Samuel 15 for just two
of many examples.) "
19:15 "`Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly."
--It states that your neighbor isn't allways the nicest person or the following Gods commands. The Old testement was pretty strict.
"20:10 Both parties in adultery shall be executed."
--Were you just expecting the woman to be executed?
"20:11 "And the man that lieth with his father's wife ... both of them shall be put to death." Which? The man and his father?
The father and his wife? Or the man and his father's wife? Oh heck, just kill all three."
--Hm.. I think this is where we pick up a little common sence, ok so..Who sinned? Was it his daddy? Nope, was it mabye, the adulterer and the adultress? Yup, I think thats using a bit of logic.
"20:12 If a man "lies" with his daughter-in-law, then both must be killed."
--Sure, yup. Were you still expecing the dauter in law to be exicuted because God is favorable to the woman to such a degree?
"20:14 If you "lie" with your wife and your mother-in-law (now that sounds fun!), then all three of your must be burned to
death."
--Sounds fun? Oh my, well, still, Gods rules, (this is pretty sick anyways I think!)
"20:15-16 If a man or woman "lie with a beast" both the person and the poor animal are to be killed."
--Yup, and the problem?
"20:27 People with "familiar spirits" (witches, fortune tellers, etc.) are to be stoned to death."
--Yup.
"21:18 Anyone with a "flat nose, or any thing superfluous" must stay away from the altar of God."
21:20 A man with damaged testicles must not "come nigh to offer the bread of his God."
--Again, I quote from above:
"22:3-5 A man who is unclean, or is a leper, or has a "running issue", or "whose seed goeth from him", or who touches any
dead or "creeping thing" ... "shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean."
--Yes it does say that, why is that bad, again, a sanitation law.
"23:29-30 Don't do any work on the day of atonement or God will destroy you."
"24:14-23 Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community."
--Pretty strict in that day, huh.
"19:19 "Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with a mingled seed: neither shall
a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee." I'm glad God told me about this, I was just about to do some of
these awful things."
--Really you were? In other words, God is saying, don't mate your dogs with your sheep, or hour horse with your goats. And don't where the linen material the offspring may produce.

You know what TC? As far as i'm concerned,anyone who can sit there and defend this mythological garbage is no better than the animal religious fanatics who flew those planes in the WTC on sept 11. There's only one reason that may be invoked to kill someone...if that someone is trying to kill you or someone you chose to protect for whatever reason and any God that says otherwise is no god of mine,never was and never will be. I can understand the need of some people to believe in God figures and let their priests and "holy" teachings govern their own existance but when you start advocating the murder of fellow human beings simply because they were born gay or have the inborn capacity to attune themselves with nature the way mediums do,you crossed the line from benevolent religious beliefs to barbaric cult practices. The world has allready suffered ONE dark age because of superstitious crap like that and does not need another. Thankfully,we are slowly but surely outgrowing this nonsense in western societies and the rest of the world will follow suit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by TrueCreation, posted 02-04-2002 10:22 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by TrueCreation, posted 02-05-2002 11:50 AM LudvanB has replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 105 (3458)
02-05-2002 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by LudvanB
02-05-2002 12:45 AM


"You know what TC? As far as i'm concerned,anyone who can sit there and defend this mythological garbage is no better than the animal religious fanatics who flew those planes in the WTC on sept 11."
--So in other words, you cannot defend what you have previously stated? I was practically positive that it would come down to this level, cobra's statment was right on the money. It seems you only have interest in your own pre-consieved belief, and thus have no intrest on the contrary. I could say the exact same thing towards yourself, but what would that mean? That I would be pretty ignorant to not follow such an assertion without a single ioda of backup. If discrediting the bible is so simple, thus it is logical to say, a simple mind can figure it out, you should be beyond this.
"There's only one reason that may be invoked to kill someone...if that someone is trying to kill you or someone you chose to protect for whatever reason and any God that says otherwise is no god of mine,never was and never will be."
--Thats unfortunate, I guess we need to realize that we arent God, we don't know his plan, and even when we can figure out that if these laws werent layed down our very existance would be threatend.
"I can understand the need of some people to believe in God figures and let their priests and "holy" teachings govern their own existance but when you start advocating the murder of fellow human beings simply because they were born gay or have the inborn capacity to attune themselves with nature the way mediums do,you crossed the line from benevolent religious beliefs to barbaric cult practices."
--For one, your not born Gay, secnd, God does not lower the handicapped, as I stated above, and also, mediums if the Bible is true, are direct enemys of God.
---Continued by Edit:
"The world has allready suffered ONE dark age because of superstitious crap like that and does not need another. Thankfully,we are slowly but surely outgrowing this nonsense in western societies and the rest of the world will follow suit."
--really now? So what dark age was the bible the cause of? Or was it the impitant mind of people?
------------------
[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 02-05-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by LudvanB, posted 02-05-2002 12:45 AM LudvanB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by LudvanB, posted 02-05-2002 12:53 PM TrueCreation has replied

  
LudvanB
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 105 (3461)
02-05-2002 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by TrueCreation
02-05-2002 11:50 AM


TC,you are telling me that you would agree with say a law passed by the governement that allowed you to kill homosexuals and mediums on sight with impunity. At least,this what can be infered from your defending those biblical superstitious abominations in the old testament. I do get carried away when reading statements like these but then again,anyone who studied history,especially that of the spanish inquisitions and all its attrocities perpetrated by so called "men of God" understand the inerant dangers of such radical beliefs. But i'm gonna give you the befifit of the doubt here and simply ask you...do you believe that these laws should be applied to their literal sense,yes or no?
Your statements is not necessarely accurate. Some people believe that we are all God..i.e. that God is actually the sum of everything that exists. As for knowing God's plan,that assumes that God has a plan to begin with...merely one more baseless assumption among the many you make. As for laws being laid down for our own safety,that is also very much relative. IMHO,we are here not to glorify God but to develop our consiousness/spirit/soul...the real us. The universe,the flora,fauna and everything down to the bodies we inhabit are merely tools used in this learning process. I dont believe we were ever told whats what. I believe we had to discover it all on our own and we are still discovering things to this day and correcting mistaken conclusion we reached in the past...for the most part...while SOME people still cling to ridiculous notions heralding from superstitious times who have otherwise long turned to dust.
Homosexuality is NOT a handicap and IS an inborn trait. Study the subject at least a little before you go shooting your mouth off about things you obviously know nothing about. As for mediums,no they are not the ennemies of God,despite what your bible says. They are people with the gifts of atuning themselves to nature and sometimes with the gift of foresight. I know from experience that mediums are a reality, and although i've never personally met one who could give predictions with pinpoint accuracy like winning lotto numbers,i know a woman who's gift of foresigt about weather patterns is nothing short of amazing. She is also capable of approaching animals and petting animals who would otherwise flee from human presence. She explained to me that there was nothing "magical" about her capacity or the abilities of any mediums but rather that her senses are more finely attuned to certain things than most people. She also has a sister with whom she can communicate empathicaly,meaning that they can sense each other's general emmotional disposition even when they are miles away. She told me that those gifts,while stronger in her and her sister,exists in each and everyone of us to varying degrees. And before you ask,no she does not work in a fair(she's a social worker),does not worship the Devil and does not seek the destruction of christianity,even though "good" christians have persecuted people like her throughout that ages. She is herself a baptised christian and is convinced that her gifts come from God. She is also a wicca and worship the nature that God created and revere it. I once asked her if that wasen't a contradiction and she explained that God does allow the worship of other dieties,as long as none are placed ABOVE God and since she worships both God and nature as a CREATION of God. Yep,she's a creationist too. My opinion,which is substanciated by a close study of history is that you dont need to look to God to find out why mediums are given such a bad rep in the Bible...good old fashion jalousy is explanation enough...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by TrueCreation, posted 02-05-2002 11:50 AM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by TrueCreation, posted 02-05-2002 4:43 PM LudvanB has replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 105 (3469)
02-05-2002 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by LudvanB
02-05-2002 12:53 PM


"TC,you are telling me that you would agree with say a law passed by the governement that allowed you to kill homosexuals and mediums on sight with impunity."
--Ofcourse not, the government is not the highest athority, nor does it take any of the characteristics of God, this is too crude of an analogy to be valid for similarity to any relevant degree.
"At least,this what can be infered from your defending those biblical superstitious abominations in the old testament. I do get carried away when reading statements like these but then again,anyone who studied history,especially that of the spanish inquisitions and all its attrocities perpetrated by so called "men of God" understand the inerant dangers of such radical beliefs."
--Who ever said there was no such thing as a fraud?
"But i'm gonna give you the befifit of the doubt here and simply ask you...do you believe that these laws should be applied to their literal sense,yes or no?"
--If I was living in the old testement, sure would, but half of these laws do not apply today because according to Christian belief and what the bible explains, Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the people, so they wouldn't be bound to either following these rules or die. Now its make your choice, take him or leave him and die alone with no one to catch you.
"Your statements is not necessarely accurate. Some people believe that we are all God..i.e. that God is actually the sum of everything that exists."
--Yes and some people believe that the world is held on a turtles back, or held up by atlas, also it is quite interesting to note, the bible claims to say the world is held in place by the balance of nothing.
"As for knowing God's plan,that assumes that God has a plan to begin with...merely one more baseless assumption among the many you make."
--We must assume the bible is correct to carry out the discussions we are having, ie, prophesy fallacy, contredictions, erroneous stories, etc. So we must follow the biblical framework within the supernatural demension to come to any conclusion on its validity.
"As for laws being laid down for our own safety,that is also very much relative."
--Mabye we should go over them again, or would you like to comment on them yourself, there right back up there in message 77.
"IMHO,we are here not to glorify God but to develop our consiousness/spirit/soul...the real us. The universe,the flora,fauna and everything down to the bodies we inhabit are merely tools used in this learning process."
--Ok thats nice.
"I dont believe we were ever told whats what. I believe we had to discover it all on our own and we are still discovering things to this day and correcting mistaken conclusion we reached in the past...for the most part...while SOME people still cling to ridiculous notions heralding from superstitious times who have otherwise long turned to dust."
--Long turned to dust? Hm.. I don't think I even see it in the least bit of perfect shape, especialy if your argument towards the bible is its basis. Answer me two questions, what would falsify your statment that 'we had to discover it all on our own and we are still discovering things to this day and correcting mistaken conclusion we reached in the past', and what would validify the bibles depiction on this scene?
"Homosexuality is NOT a handicap and IS an inborn trait. Study the subject at least a little before you go shooting your mouth off about things you obviously know nothing about."
--First, I would urge you to hold back statments like these, because ofcourse you would be to look significantly dumb if I were to prove you wrong, this doesn't just go for this argument but any. And so, what makes it an inborn trait, besides lust?
"As for mediums,no they are not the ennemies of God,despite what your bible says."
--Sure are, if the bible is true ofcourse, and we must consider it is if you are to fight with it to say its wrong.
"They are people with the gifts of atuning themselves to nature and sometimes with the gift of foresight."
--Defenantly not true if the bible is right, because if it is, it is the cause of demonic activity.
"I know from experience that mediums are a reality, and although i've never personally met one who could give predictions with pinpoint accuracy like winning lotto numbers,i know a woman who's gift of foresigt about weather patterns is nothing short of amazing."
--I've seen much of this too, but ofcourse when I have seen them, its when their cause is being driven out of them, and earthquakes sometimes happen, electric motors turn on, fire alarms are buzzing and that kinda stuff, its quite amazing.
"She is also capable of approaching animals and petting animals who would otherwise flee from human presence. She explained to me that there was nothing "magical" about her capacity or the abilities of any mediums but rather that her senses are more finely attuned to certain things than most people."
--If the bible is true, ofcourse she would say that.
"She also has a sister with whom she can communicate empathicaly,meaning that they can sense each other's general emmotional disposition even when they are miles away. She told me that those gifts,while stronger in her and her sister,exists in each and everyone of us to varying degrees. And before you ask,no she does not work in a fair(she's a social worker),does not worship the Devil and does not seek the destruction of christianity,even though "good" christians have persecuted people like her throughout that ages."
--Actually I wouldn't ask any question like is she worshiping the devil or seaking the distruction of christianity. Because if the bible is true, they should think like this, you don't have to be a psycho satan worshiper with a cannibolistic diet or something of that nature to be a medium or to be the way she is, I would have to say that the spot she is in is one of the most dangerous you can be in, exactly because of what she believes is true.
"She is herself a baptised christian and is convinced that her gifts come from God. She is also a wicca and worship the nature that God created and revere it. I once asked her if that wasen't a contradiction and she explained that God does allow the worship of other dieties,as long as none are placed ABOVE God and since she worships both God and nature as a CREATION of God."
--Heres some good verses for her:
Deuteronomy 17:3 - and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky,
Deuteronomy 29:26 - "They went off and worshiped other gods and bowed down to them, gods they did not know, gods he had not given them."
Romans 1:25 - They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
--The bible clearly states that you should have no Gods 'period', but God himself within the trinity.
"Yep,she's a creationist too. My opinion,which is substanciated by a close study of history is that you dont need to look to God to find out why mediums are given such a bad rep in the Bible...good old fashion jalousy is explanation enough..."
--Jelousy? Whats there to be jelous about? I fell sorry for her, she is in a pit and she can't get herself out because she thinks she's fine where she is at, my last girlfriend was in this same possition, she was a wiccan, thought the same things the person you are describing, I tried to show her, she wasn't interested in what it had to say but her own belief and would not consider anything else.
--I continue to substantiate my claim, the bible is simply nothing but truth to everything I know, now would anyone try to discredit my statment? Or is it not possible.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by LudvanB, posted 02-05-2002 12:53 PM LudvanB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by LudvanB, posted 02-05-2002 6:33 PM TrueCreation has replied

  
LudvanB
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 105 (3488)
02-05-2002 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by TrueCreation
02-05-2002 4:43 PM


You substanciate NOTHING. You merely obstinately repeat your absolute conviction that the Bible is the truth in all it says and when presented with statements in the Bible that are false,you simply re-interpret them to your heart's content. You say mediums are by their nature tools of demonic activity. How exactly? How could this claim be falsifiable scientificaly? I know from experience that people get jalous of other people's unique capabilities. Some people get jalous of other people's strenght,beauty,natural abilities at a given skill. There is no reason to believe that the autors of the Bible did not feel this way about mediums. There is no reason to believe that they wrote them down in their bible as being evil or possessed because they wanted to direct the ire of populations against them. People destroy the object of their jalousy. Thats a known fact. Jalousy will sometime blind even the smartest people to the obvious fact that keen senses can and are being used to do good as well as harm and that people should be judged by their actions and NOT by their inborn traits/capabilities. The woman i mentionned is the kindest person i know and she is very devout to her work as a social worker and has been for over 30 years. She never married or had children of her own most likely because of this devotion and the idea that some cult out there would consider her evil by nature BECAUSE she has a gift and uses it to make her own life easier while harming no one is simply repungant to me. Your brand of christianity is an insult to God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by TrueCreation, posted 02-05-2002 4:43 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by TrueCreation, posted 02-05-2002 10:06 PM LudvanB has replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 105 (3489)
02-05-2002 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by LudvanB
02-05-2002 6:33 PM


"You substanciate NOTHING. You merely obstinately repeat your absolute conviction that the Bible is the truth in all it says and when presented with statements in the Bible that are false,you simply re-interpret them to your heart's content."
--As I have already proved to you and the rest of the board posters and reviewers, it is the contrary and the other way around, I view it in its obvious context, with human understanding, and a little common scence. Unless you can show me otherwize, this claim of mine, stands valid. I find it significantly clever of you towards the strategy of your posting. With it you can post long vague rebutals to the previous response, but keep it vague, that is, you con't respond directly to any of my arguments. I could very easilly go through previous posts and pick out at least 30 quotes from yourself in which are either silly missinterperetations, missunderstandings, and fallacies in your writting. Direct argumental commentary is needed in such an argument, it is needed for many of your claims such as this to be at all valid.
"You say mediums are by their nature tools of demonic activity. How exactly? How could this claim be falsifiable scientificaly?"
--How exactly, is the demonic entity will show them anything they want, say for example quiji boards, they will give them answers sertaintly, and they will also give you even beautiful dreams and out of body experiences, astral projections, etc, and they will sertainly make you think that it is from God, or the Natural God, ie the creation. They will also make you feel like you are either fully in touch with the bible or they will make you feel like it is some kind of tool of some kind as my last girlfriend believed it to be, I don't fully understand that part but its basically it. There are people such as Bob Larson, whom I admire as basically being an exorcist for Christ, he started the DWJD ministry, (Do what Jesus Did), it is fully biblical also. It's simply crazy to go there in person and watch thses things happen.
"I know from experience that people get jalous of other people's unique capabilities. Some people get jalous of other people's strenght,beauty,natural abilities at a given skill. There is no reason to believe that the autors of the Bible did not feel this way about mediums. There is no reason to believe that they wrote them down in their bible as being evil or possessed because they wanted to direct the ire of populations against them. People destroy the object of their jalousy. Thats a known fact. Jalousy will sometime blind even the smartest people to the obvious fact that keen senses can and are being used to do good as well as harm and that people should be judged by their actions and NOT by their inborn traits/capabilities."
--Seems logical, but this is quite contredictory in much of the bible, especially when Jesus comes on the scene, who showed love to these people and told them when they wanted him to flee from their wicked practices.
"The woman i mentionned is the kindest person i know and she is very devout to her work as a social worker and has been for over 30 years."
--This reminds me of my previous girlfriend as I stated above, she was basically the sweetest, kindest most gentle girl, she was like this little wrapped up present with a puppy inside. But this does not substantiate the fact that she didn't want a part in what the bible offered, and she continuously claimed that she can get to heaven by following the spirits who were her friends and talked with her in her sleep and when she was awake. You can be all of this, but still not inheret the kingdom of God, as it is what the Bible teaches and that is what we are discussing.
"She never married or had children of her own most likely because of this devotion and the idea that some cult out there would consider her evil by nature BECAUSE she has a gift and uses it to make her own life easier while harming no one is simply repungant to me."
--I would have to say that someone in this day and age to approach anyone like this in such a way in seaking to show them what the bible truely says or something of that nature, if coming for prosecution, they will dig their hole for them. But if you come to them as the bible shows us we should, with meakness, kindness, care and love then you are playing the right game.
"Your brand of christianity is an insult to God."
--And what God is that? Because it sertainly is not the God of the bible, as he himself told us what his brand of christianity is.
--I found it quite unfortunate to be unable to get any direct comments on any of my claims, it seems as I stated above, you have a clever strategy, even unintentional most likely, in the way you respond. I would urge you that if you wan't your claims to be valid, respond to my direct statments, it would be a bit tougher for me to think the answer, as responding to your strategitcal responses is quite a breeze, but were here to get the truth, not see who has the best debating style.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by LudvanB, posted 02-05-2002 6:33 PM LudvanB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by LudvanB, posted 02-06-2002 12:20 AM TrueCreation has replied
 Message 87 by KingPenguin, posted 02-06-2002 1:18 AM TrueCreation has not replied

  
LudvanB
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 105 (3499)
02-06-2002 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by TrueCreation
02-05-2002 10:06 PM


I dont respond in the context of your Biblical quotations because A: I dont believe they come from God and B: I dont agree with them,period. To me,anyone who views a medium as an instrument of demonic activity is a superstitious fool and deserves to be pitied. Mediums,like everyone on earth receive their gifts from God...not the God of your Bible,which doesn't exist but from the God which gave birth to life and who may or may not have created the universe per say. Mediums have a gift. If they use it to do good,they are good and if they use it to do harm,they are evil,same as anyone. If you dont think your God and your Bible agrees with mediums,than dont be one but for the record,there is nothing inerantly ungodly about mediums. Even Kind Solomon,from your Bible,sought the help of a witch at one time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by TrueCreation, posted 02-05-2002 10:06 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by TrueCreation, posted 02-06-2002 5:53 PM LudvanB has replied

  
KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 7883 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 86 of 105 (3503)
02-06-2002 1:16 AM


i havent seen any totally straight answers to the original questions, or at least the ones i saw werent actually answering the question or maybe i overlooked it. also i think that by created in the image of god, he meant that man could recognize their own existence, part of that being science :-). No animal has mortal fear like a man, none. That is the difference between us and our so called ancestors, apes. More than likely god had all beings share some genes, etc. so that they were edible/digestible for man, why make food if you cant eat it. I wonder, is there a passage in the bible about animal intelligence being a gift to man or something to that effect? id prefer a creationist answer solely because of my bias but im an open person :-).

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by joz, posted 02-06-2002 9:38 AM KingPenguin has not replied
 Message 89 by mark24, posted 02-06-2002 11:06 AM KingPenguin has not replied

  
KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 7883 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 87 of 105 (3504)
02-06-2002 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by TrueCreation
02-05-2002 10:06 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by TrueCreation:
but were here to get the truth, not see who has the best debating style.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Rock on man!!! Rock on!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by TrueCreation, posted 02-05-2002 10:06 PM TrueCreation has not replied

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 105 (3519)
02-06-2002 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by KingPenguin
02-06-2002 1:16 AM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
More than likely god had all beings share some genes, etc. so that they were edible/digestible for man, why make food if you cant eat it
Why the hell do you think we have to share genes with our food in order to digest it?
[This message has been edited by joz, 02-06-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by KingPenguin, posted 02-06-2002 1:16 AM KingPenguin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by TrueCreation, posted 02-06-2002 5:58 PM joz has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 89 of 105 (3525)
02-06-2002 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by KingPenguin
02-06-2002 1:16 AM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
i havent seen any totally straight answers to the original questions, or at least the ones i saw werent actually answering the question or maybe i overlooked it. also i think that by created in the image of god, he meant that man could recognize their own existence, part of that being science :-). No animal has mortal fear like a man, none. That is the difference between us and our so called ancestors, apes. More than likely god had all beings share some genes, etc. so that they were edible/digestible for man, why make food if you cant eat it. I wonder, is there a passage in the bible about animal intelligence being a gift to man or something to that effect? id prefer a creationist answer solely because of my bias but im an open person :-).
Just to add to Joz' comment. We DO NOT need similar genes to our food. We possess enzymes, coded by our own DNA, to rip apart our foods genes, in order to get at the contituent proteins. We cannot make use of the complete genes of our food.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by KingPenguin, posted 02-06-2002 1:16 AM KingPenguin has not replied

  
KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 7883 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 90 of 105 (3535)
02-06-2002 12:29 PM


it was late and i was thinking of elements. sorry. reply to the rest of it too.

  
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