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Author Topic:   General discussion of moderation procedures - Part 7
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 262 of 304 (349814)
09-17-2006 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Quetzal
09-17-2006 4:00 PM


Re: Why Isn't "Inconvenient Truth" Closed?
I think that was also the one crash was referring to.
While he may have complaints about Ohnai's thread, that is not where all of this began and he was more than likely referring to RAZD's Inconvenient Truth thread.
In that thread he created a post (#75) which allegedly "catalogues" all my distortions of his posts. Since that time he has (apparently) been following me around EvC trying to pick fights in order to boost that catalogue for me to address.
My reply (#82) to his post was the following and I stand by it...
...I find no reason to get into a debate with you about it. People reading along can (or have already since we discussed much of it previously) come to their own conclusion about who is saying what about whom. I want to focus on analysis of the data and that seems wholly irrelevant to these other points.
Personally I wanted to get more out of both threads regarding their topics. I did not enjoy what was going on in any and have been attempting to reach a conclusion. Specifically in Ohnai's thread I attempted to make a clean break with post #85, and have repeated that attempt three times, the latest coming after PD's (thankful) intervention.
It currently appears to be back on track. So the "waters are safe" again to come back in.
I apologize to you and everyone else for the mess (all over the place). For my part I am going to try to avoid posts insulting me, or which shift debate away from the topic by arguing about miscommunication instead of solving such.
Again I apologize.
Edited by holmes, : nothing
Edited by holmes, : clarity
Edited by holmes, : more clear?

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Quetzal, posted 09-17-2006 4:00 PM Quetzal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by crashfrog, posted 09-17-2006 5:38 PM Silent H has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 270 of 304 (349908)
09-18-2006 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by AdminModulous
09-17-2006 7:21 PM


Re: Why Isn't "Inconvenient Truth" Closed?
If you want me to start moderating on the issue, I would suspend both of you for 72 hours so you can have time to consider how you are going to tackle the communications failure you are having with one another.
I have already apologized (in this thread) for my part in allowing the problem to continue and have said that in the future I will refuse to respond to posts which discuss my behavior, or argue about miscommunication rather than solving such. If this is not enough I am open to any suggestions.
I let this go a long time ago, and have been striving for solutions. I believe I have even reached a solution with Flies (where we had clearly been talking past each other).
This reminds me of the go 'round I had with Rrhain. At the time my solution was to just open a thread where he could post to (or I could point to) if he wanted to post off topic discussion. The admins closed it and said I should get over it. Whether I agreed with closing it or not, I agreed (even at the time) that the solution is for both parties to get over it.
I have my own opinion of what is happening, but I don't really care and don't want to waste my time on these kinds of issues. I am over it and want to move on. I'm not sure what more I can do, except stick to the topic and avoid side issues?
AbE: In summary, I don't think a 72hr suspension is a solution to the problem. It seems to me a clear statement of how to stay on topic, or deal with miscommunications would be more profitable and I am open to such suggestions.
Edited by holmes, : perhaps clearer
Edited by holmes, : maybe

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by AdminModulous, posted 09-17-2006 7:21 PM AdminModulous has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 271 of 304 (349909)
09-18-2006 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Quetzal
09-17-2006 7:05 PM


Re: Why Isn't "Inconvenient Truth" Closed?
I brought the issue up originally here in the moderation forum because it was beyond my comprehension why the admins allowed any of you to get away with it. "Be careful what you wish for" is not a bad adage for you in this instance: if it'd been me, you'd all have been gone.
Again, I apologize for my part in causing your discomfort. I sort of feel sad you didn't feel you could approach me on the issue, instead of going to the mods first. I have always valued your opinion, and would have put my foot down faster (on myself) to return to topic.
If you have advice on how to proceed from here above and beyond what I mentioned in my earlier post to you, I am open to suggestions.

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Quetzal, posted 09-17-2006 7:05 PM Quetzal has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 280 of 304 (350227)
09-19-2006 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by AdminPD
09-19-2006 5:44 AM


Re: Why Isn't "Inconvenient Truth" Closed?
You’re both focusing on the wrong stuff to further the discussion... You both are muddling the topic. Focus. Stick to what is important.
If it makes you feel any better, I recognize your point, which at least two others here have also suggested. I apologize once again, and will strive to stick to the evidence and logic related to the thread, and not get sidetracked into arguing over failures to communicate. In fact that apology goes double for your having to slog through what was painful enough for me to read/live through the first time. I realize if I hadn't wrote it, you wouldn't've had to read it.
No I won't be reading across several threads. Not so much disinterest as lack of time
I had left the summary he made in the first AIT thread alone because I figured most people did not care, or would come to a similar conclusion that I had (and which you pretty much just did).
He is now discussing other threads. I really don't want to pursue this any further, but I have my own impression of what is going on, and do not like seeing my name slandered. That is especially true when the person appears (to me) to be constructing an argument that either admins will agree that I am a bad poster, or they believe (or would believe) I am but don't have the time or care to prove it which in itself is due to my "tactics". In other words no matter what happens or is said, it is proof of my villainy, and perhaps tantamount to an official acknoweldgement of such.
As you noted above regarding the AIT thread in question my original post was to RAZD, and not to him. This is true for a number of recent threads following that one (including the latest AIT thread which Quetzal had complained about). In each case, even where I addressed types of arguments I felt he had used, I addressed the verbiage of the argument and did not tie it to his name. In that way if the position I addressed would be a "distortion" of his position, he would have no reason to complain because I wasn't addressing or claiming to address him... just the argument.
Thus if this is going to be about conduct in other threads then I have something to say because I KNOW I've been going out of my way to avoid conflict. I can document my "case" clearly if need be. But I'd rather not get into it, especially because I don't have the time or interest. I've let it go, and I want to move on.
I realize you have said you will not follow this to other threads, but I am concerned that complaints are going to continue, and conclusions drawn... particularly if I don't answer repeated accusations.
If my efforts to stick to topic are not enough, what more does he want? Why isn't avoiding events which could lead to future problems not enough?
Thank you.

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by AdminPD, posted 09-19-2006 5:44 AM AdminPD has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 293 of 304 (350576)
09-20-2006 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by Quetzal
09-19-2006 5:20 PM


Re: Why Isn't "Inconvenient Truth" Closed?
If it makes you feel better, it was that particular thread (and my whining about it to anyone who would sit still long enough)
This makes me feel pretty bad actually. Yes I think you should be an admin, but as I said earlier (and contrary to your claim above) you sure didn't say anything to me.
I believe I have always valued your input, and I thought we had a good relationship, so I was sort of surprised that you got angry enough to go to anyone else without putting in a comment to me in the thread.
You don't have to reply to this, but I guess I'm asking that in the future you give me a chance by simply pointing out an error at the time, rather than letting it boil over.
Anyhow, congrats on the admin thing.

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Quetzal, posted 09-19-2006 5:20 PM Quetzal has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 301 of 304 (350713)
09-20-2006 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by kuresu
09-20-2006 12:35 PM


Re: Why Isn't "Inconvenient Truth" Closed?
The last month on this board has consisted of you and Holmes bashing your heads against the damn walls.
I have not enjoyed this experience and I am not wanting it to continue. I realize I made a huge mistake trying to argue things out with him in those earlier threads, I apologize for that behavior, and will try not to let it happen again. On the flipside I'm not sure what else I am supposed to do now.
Not talking to him still results in replies from him as well as accusations about me in other threads (like this one). What's worse is he then uses my lack of taking his bait as a reason to doubt me and believe him (I am not defending myself).
Perhaps you (and others) can give me a suggestion, suppose someone was saying the same things about you. What would you do about it? I am quite serious with this question as I am trying to find a solution, and you don't even have to deal with the specifics of this case.
Is it better for me to ignore such accusations, or am I better off saying nothing? Maybe trying to present my case in a neutral form?
Again, I am seriously seeking guidance here for my own behavior. I am feeling compelled to defend myself, or at the very least explain myself, but realize it may feed a cycle. I need an outside perspective/suggestion.

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by kuresu, posted 09-20-2006 12:35 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by kuresu, posted 09-20-2006 2:45 PM Silent H has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 303 of 304 (350716)
09-20-2006 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Taz
09-20-2006 2:31 PM


Re: Why Isn't "Inconvenient Truth" Closed?
Holmes seems to put too much effort in trying to mimic the writing style of german philosophers and dances (naked) around the points that he seems to want to not make.
Heheheh... well I apologize for my writing style. Its something I am also trying to work on. It was developed by writing and/or reading lots of philosophical, legal, and scientific papers during my education and work.
Perhaps I was damaged by reading German philosophers, ironically I hated them.
I will say I don't mean to avoid making a point. I have a problem with trying to over explain.
If you have a suggestion for improving my writing style, please let me know.

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Taz, posted 09-20-2006 2:31 PM Taz has not replied

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