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Author Topic:   animals on the ark
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 181 of 196 (351086)
09-21-2006 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by pixieprincess
09-21-2006 1:56 PM


Re: Can't answer all of your questions, but here is a possible one
A possibility, but as nwr points out, the literalists insist that the flood was a global flood, and so must have contained representatives of all the "kinds" of animals.
Your scenario also presents some problems as well. If there were a flood in the Middle East, there should be some pretty clear evidence of it in the archaeological record. After all, floods leave some pretty distinctive sediments behind. It should be possible to find a single layer of flood deposits throughout the Middle East that dates to a single time.
Also, is it possible to flood the Middle East for a year, as Genesis states? The Middle East is not a bowl which can hold water -- the rain would pretty much flow away without building up overmuch. You can get flash floods in the valleys, but these would be very local, very temporary events. In this case, there would be no need to preserve the animals (they would not be in danger of extinction), nor would a boat be necessary -- Noah could have been warned to walk out of the area.
The flood is an interesting, and perhaps educational, story as a fable, but no matter how you look at it it is pretty ridiculous as an actual historical event.
Sort of like how, on another thread, someone is trying to claim that the Genesis creation story somehow describes the actual origin of the universe and the earth as modern science understands it. At some point you just have to realize that there is zero historical correspondence between various events described and actual history, and then just accept the stories for the value that they have, if any, as moral fables.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by pixieprincess, posted 09-21-2006 1:56 PM pixieprincess has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Taz, posted 09-21-2006 3:20 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 183 of 196 (351101)
09-21-2006 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Taz
09-21-2006 3:20 PM


The Rocky Mountains, too.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Taz, posted 09-21-2006 3:20 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Taz, posted 09-21-2006 6:39 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 185 of 196 (351163)
09-21-2006 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Taz
09-21-2006 6:39 PM


I can't find anything that claims that the Dead Sea was formed as the result of a catastrophic flood. Maybe there are claims that it was, but I haven't found any yet.
Not that it matters. The Dead Sea is pretty small -- in fact, Israel itself is pretty small. If God was going to destroy a tiny place like the Dead Sea, she could have just told Noah to walk away from the area. And no need to take the animals.
Unless by "Water could have flooded in and stayed in there from the med," you mean that the Dead Sea is the remains of a wider regional flood, then, again, I don't think there is any evidence that such a wider regional flood ever happened (there would be some geological/archaeological evidence), nor, as far as I know, would a large geographical area, large enough to require a life boat for salvation, hold water for a year before it finally drained off.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Taz, posted 09-21-2006 6:39 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by jar, posted 09-21-2006 7:14 PM Chiroptera has not replied
 Message 187 by Taz, posted 09-21-2006 7:42 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 188 of 196 (351173)
09-21-2006 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Taz
09-21-2006 7:42 PM


I've heard of the Black Sea = Noah's Flood theory. But that remains very controversial. For one thing, the actual geological history of the Black Sea turns out to be pretty complicated, and the "flooding" may have taken place over a very long period of time.
But the main reason for my skepticism is that there is a very, very long period of time between the supposed "flooding" of the Black Sea and the writing of the Genesis (and the earlier Sumerian) account. It is quite plausible that the Black Sea incident was long forgotten by the time the Middle Eastern flood story developed.
At any rate, we appear to agree that whatever the source of the Flood Story, the idea of a guy getting advanced warning and building a boat to save the animals is a fanciful story without any correspondence to reality.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Taz, posted 09-21-2006 7:42 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Taz, posted 09-21-2006 8:57 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 190 of 196 (351282)
09-22-2006 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Taz
09-21-2006 8:57 PM


Now that is an interesting idea. Noah was just an ordinary dude doing an ordinary thing during an ordinary event. I like it.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Taz, posted 09-21-2006 8:57 PM Taz has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 195 of 196 (351320)
09-22-2006 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Brian
09-22-2006 12:53 PM


Nice one, but I like the Life of Brian version better.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Brian, posted 09-22-2006 12:53 PM Brian has not replied

  
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