YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread.

—the qu'ran uses the word "allah" which is related to the hebrew/aramaic — or —, meaning "god." as far as i know, it does not contain the divine name , though it might call allah by some cognate of .unfortunately, i don't know arabic either, so i can't tell you for certain. but we do have one member, i believe, who reads arabic. though he's only been vocal in the chat recently.Edited by arachnophilia, : — — ‘— —‘ —

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i would imagine that "lord" is not a replacement for hashem in judaism, but rather a cognate of the title (much like the nt does not contain the name, but a word meaning "lord.") yes, hashem fell out of customary use, due to it's sanctity. this apparently happened at some point during the biblical tradition's authorship, as certain sources (e, for instance) avoiding using the name. the new testament (whether you believe any or not) is actually a good demonstration of this, as it lacks any transliteration of the name of god. only a translation of the title adonai. what especially bugs me is when christians get the name of god wrong. if you're gonna use it, and not follow the tradition of respect, at least get it right.

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what's wrong with hashem? it just means "the name" and is generally considered more respectful than actually using the name itself. i believe it does.

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ok, this is taking a severe left turn.i tend to replace the name of the lord with either "the lord" or "god" or "the name" out of respect and continuation of the hebrew tradition, regarding the sanctity of the divine name. while i am not jewish myself, i do it because they do it, and i respect the religion enough to mind its sensitive points.i have no real qualms about using the divine name, especially not in an educational manner, which said tradition actually allows for. absolutely not, and this is possibly the second biggest misrepresentation of my position that i have ever heard. (the first still goes to faith, who once accused me of antisemitism.) the most consistent theme in my nearly 7,000 posts here is "learn hebrew, learn the social, religious, linguistic, cultural, and textual context, and for god's sake pay attention to what the text actually says." indeed, even a quick search will yield not only posts where i do use the divine name, but multiple posts where i explain the pronounciation. i even started an entire thread entirely devoted to correct transliteration of the tetragrammaton. feel free to peruse those a bit, i think you find that i am all for the correct use of the proper name of god. how, exactly?Edited by arachnophilia, : broken tag

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if you have "the original" you'll probably notice something. has vowels. in most copies of ha-torah, it probably reads:which, as you seem to be able to read hebrew, you'll probably notice is a very, very strange combination of consonants and vowels. and that's because they're the vowels from , not . as i'm sure you know, this is to remind the reader to say "adonay" aloud, instead of the name of god. that's the tradition -- and has been for 1800 years. these vowels, iirc, are in the masoretic text -- a good deal earlier than rambam.also, as you seem to able to read hebrew, you no doubt understand that nobody really cares about vowels in their writing -- nobody needs them to read. however, in english, it's customary to use them in english, and those apostrophes are just ugly, as is typing anything in all caps.it is by far better to use either the hebrew directly, , or use the transliteration with the implied vowels, "yahueh" or "yahweh." most certainly not. even forgiving the yud-to-"j" issue (as many hebrew names take on a j in english), it's the wrong set of vowels and the wrong number of syllables. and it comes from a misunderstanding of the above custom. respect it, or ignore it, but at least understand it. if you want to use the hebrew, by all means use the hebrew.as a side note: yes, i was suprised at how little of a disadvantage i was at being the only goy in my hebrew class. what do they teach these kids in hebrew school? lol. yitsak rabin? what did his assination have to do with the name of god?i'm gonna ignore the rambling political polemic, because i honestly can't figure out what the heck you're even talking about, let alone the argument you're trying to make, and this is really not the thread for it.

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no, that's translating from one language to the other. when you read a word in hebrew, it may not have the vowels in it, but you know what they are. when you write a word in english, it has to have vowels. if you're going to transliterate a name from hebrew to english, it's customary to add the appropriate vowels so the english readers can understand. otherwise, just write it in hebrew.for instance, we write "David" not "D'V'D" and "Jonathan" not "Y'H'V'N'T'N"what is editorializing is purposefully not writing the name of god correctly. people who write "YHWH" are trying to make it seem like the name cannot be pronounced in a human tongue. how do you say four consonants in a row? you don't. the pattern of not writing vowels in the english transliteration of god's name is specifically intended to make pronounciation impossible. yet, god's name can be said human beings. if you think it should be, try to make it pronouncable. they do when they write in english. and actually, alef and ayin are both vowels, and vav, heh and yud are semi-vowels. so yes, hebrew does use vowels on a regular basis, just not vowel points.and i don't know what you expect me to hear if i talk to a linguist. i am not totally in the dark with regards to the hebrew language. it has nothing to do with the topic. you obviously have some agenda to sell -- and if anyone's been taken captive by politicians (or, perhaps crackpots) it seems to be you. no, it's rambling. and "synergy" is not a real word. "synergy" and "brainstorming" are good codewords for "bullshit" or "marketting" or "poor business management." ditto. ditto. comedians typically make sense.

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— ‘no, i would not. it takes all kinds here, and that includes the clearly crackpots and occasionally the criminally insane. the topic of dvd's (and by that i mean digital video discs) in the bible has indeed come up before.if you wrote , i know you were referring to david (probably KING david, given the context). if you wrote "david" i know you were referring to david. but if you wrote "DVD" i'd think you meant that swanky new edition of "the ten commandments", or worse, some half-baked crackpot theory about time travel and modern technology. considering that is a conjugation of the verb — (), yes. the vav is indeed functioning as a vowel, and "oh" or an "oo" sound. i opt for "oo" because is currently pronounced "yahu" in people's names, ie: or even ‘ . that's just false. it's a conjugation of a very common verb. anyone who's taken an intermediate hebrew class should be able to figure this out. yes, but that's ingoring the simple facts of the hebrew language and the history of the semitic phonics system. a letter stood not just for the consonant, but for an implied vowel that followed it, except in certain situations (like the end of a word). when you say the words aloud, you pronounce the vowels, don't you? i know what it means. if you know hebrew, you should know what it means. if you've read the book of exodus you should know what it means. hell, even buzsaw here knows what it means, even if he can't spell it right. when moshe asks of god his name in exodus 3, god says:

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(i am what i am)

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and then goes on to say:

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—‘ —, , — —
(say this to the sons of israel, "i am has sent me to you.")

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and in the next verse, he calls himself . it doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense in english -- but that three-letter root of and the three-letter root of are BOTH -- "to be." the authors of the bible were quite fond of their puns, it seems. how is "tetragrammaton" any different than "ha-shem" or any other replacement? god has a name, and one that can be pronounced if you know any hebrew at all. why not the write the name properly, either in hebrew, or in an effective transliteration in english? why not just say — like it does in the torah? or, if you're too lazy to type in hebrew, why not just "yahweh elohim?" yeah, what? again, what?Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.

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and i carefully pointed you to argument where someone thought that king david was a movie. Magictyper - Type in Hebrew Phonetically but that's not what you are doing. you are only transliterating half the word. why do you write the vowels in "asher?" why not 'ASHR? and what do you want me to prove, exactly? you claim to know hebrew, are you unfamiliar with the concept of grammar? no, you are editorializing when you say that people cannot know what it means, or how to say it. there is a general academic consensus as to how to pronounce it, and everybody knows what it means -- because you have to in order to understand exodus 3. you are editorializing because you are treating the name of god as if it were somehow different than any other hebrew word. you rail against replacement, but you are equally avoiding its proper usage. no. that's not "brainstorming." it's off-topic. and did you compare? "yahweh" is the proper name of god. "tetragrammaton" is the greek-ish term for the name, meaning "four letters." it is NOT his name, but a replacement for his name, exactly the same as "ha-shem." it refers to the name, but not the person of god.

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i still prefer milon-morfix/melingo, but it requires that you actually type in hebrew to look things up.

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salaam, and welcome to evc.you've bumped a relatively old thread here, and some of the things you write have almost certainly been covered already. for instance: i'm almost positive i remember posting something to this effect earlier in this thread, specifically the linguistic relationship of the ilah part of al(-i)lah to the hebrew elohim. one is the cognate of the other, though "allah" is linguistically more exclusive, as it means the god, not just god/gods in general. this is just false. the same word as different parts of speech is actually quite common in both biblical and modern hebrew. it's meaning is also related to a pun that occurs in the text, when god first speaks to moshe.

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oh no, you misunderstood. is just my signature, it another jewish name: "arach." it's a play on my screenname. is a version of the verb — l'hyot (to be) turned into a proper noun. the most commonly used form in hebrew is hayah, meaning "was." it also means "is" but it's never actually used in the present tense. is general considered to be present tense, though future tenses are also ok. i'm not terribly clear on future tense in hebrew -- it doesn't have true tenses, really. but it's generally rendered "yahweh" and means "he who exists."when moshe asks god his name, he says , ahayah asher ahayah. "i am that i am," or possibly "i will be what i will be." god's name is derived from the verb in that sentance.

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you know very well that the ilah part of "allah" in arabic and the eloh part of "elohim" in hebrew are cognates. the same word in two different languages.what makes "allah" a name is that it has been elevated to such. in judaism, one is not allowed to speak god's proper name. as such, in some texts it is even missing, and god is simply referred to as "elohim." it's quite possible that people reading texts influenced by this practive (ie: the english bible) will draw the conclusion that god's name is "God." which is how you hear english speakers refer to him, as if it were a proper name.it's almost certainly the same process that happened in islam. or worse yet for the judeo-christian ideology, it might be adopted straight from the proper name "el" that exists in every semitic mesopotamian culture -- which is likely the origin of the word "el" as a title. ironically, it was a name first. it's this "yahweh" stuff that's new, and this "jehovah" garbage that's a misreading of that.also, didn't your admin incarnation ban you? what happened? (welcome back?)

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through the proper name's lack of use, it could concievable become one. i demonstrate how. if 90% of christians today thing that god's name is "God," who are you and i to disagree with the technicalities? "jehovah" is not god's name. you know that. i know you know that. i keep telling you that. i really wish you'd try to take the time to understand why it's wrong. it's not the j, it's the fact that it's the combination of a word and a name.and the NAME "yahweh" is a descriptive title as well. it has meaning. all names in hebrew have meanings. it has become a proper name, yes. i never said otherwise. you keep trying to make this point. you keep getting shot down. "elohim" is a proper name in other cultures. "el" is a proper name in other cultures -- ones OLDER than judaism. how is "allah" different? especially considering that it's the same word. you have been continually disproven on this point, too. the crescent moon (AND star) is the symbol of the ottoman empire, NOT islam. yahueh? sure he is. still is today. the samaritans worship him, along with a pantheon. no, this tradition is present in the e document, which was finished BEFORE exile. sorry, but the fact the bible is an old text actually hurts your point here. not a replacement. nothing is being replaced. the J document contains references to "yahueh elohim" and the E simply to "elohim." "yahueh" has not been replaced, simply subtracted. then through cultural revision, "elohim" becomes god's effective name. especially since in english we regard "LORD" (the replacement for the name) as the title.it's complex and goes across languages, but so does everything else. even islam. what's the difference? been busy

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that depends on what you mean by "indefinitely." perhaps you mean to say "the period of suspensions was not defined [and to be determined at a later point of time]." i don't know about most people, but i generally take "indefinitely" to mean "forever." in which case, it would be forbidding someone from returning. you're still not getting it. it's not the consonants. those are relatively routine transformations -- not particularly accurate to the language, but routine nonetheless. rather it's the vowels. the vowels are from another word, and create an extra syllable that the original word lacks.and yes, mainstream scholars agree. they agree that "jehovah" is an inaccurate name, and it has since fallen out of academic use in favor of "yahweh." buzsaw, you're starting to sound like randman again, acusing your opponents of your own shortcomings, in this especially ironic fashion. on the contrary, i am trying to help you, because you believe a falsehood. and whatever i do, i cannot seem to correct your belief. no logic and no evidence and no linguistic expertise will ever sway you. you are dead-set on calling god by the wrong name.how well can you really say you know god, if you can't even spell his name right? what a short memory you must have! why you had a a whole thread on this topic, in which your every point was shot down at every turn. neither was yahweh the only god that abraham knew before he left ur. nor was yahweh the only god that moses knew before the burning bush spoke to him. i think you're reading a different bible than i am, again, buz. the bible i have continually has the israelites setting up idols and worshipping foreign gods and even building temples to foreign gods. what book are you reading?

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jews are forbidden for blotting out the name of god.

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And ye shall break down their altars, and dash in pieces their pillars, and burn their Asherim with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods; and ye shall destroy their name out of that place. Ye shall not do so unto the LORD your God.

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Deuteronomy 12:3-4

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in speech, they replace it. when writing, they replace or omit it -- specifically to avoid accidentally doing just this. "yahweh" looks like this in paleo-hebrew:here's a link to the paleo-hebrew alef-bet. please show me how anything can be turned into "yahweh" by means of addition of lines. i hate to break this to you, but "allah" isn't technically a name. since i happen to know enough about semitic language, i'll break it down for you:al-ilah.ilah is the generic word for "god." al is the article "the." so the name of god is "the god?" really, that's nice. what's worse is that this title does appear in the hebrew bible, just in hebrew. quite frequently, actually.ilah in hebrew is elah. the false plural of which is elohim, the word commonly translated as "god" or "gods" in english bibles. further, the aramaic words christ speaks from the cross begin elahi or [/i]elohi[/i]. again, the same word -- "allah" was apparently quite commonly used in arabic.

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