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Author Topic:   Oh my how things have changed!!!
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 106 of 125 (350961)
09-21-2006 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by ringo
09-20-2006 11:37 AM


Re: The possible
But can it be a same-sex monkey?
Anythig goes, just not in the church I go to, otherwise I will have to find another one.
It's on God, not on me. I have prayed to God, and asked Him to settle the situation. I have complete faith that whether gays marry or not, the situation is under control.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by ringo, posted 09-20-2006 11:37 AM ringo has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 107 of 125 (350967)
09-21-2006 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Taz
09-20-2006 1:45 PM


Re: The possible
Unlike you, I actually exercise my right to not watch such crap.
I admire that in you, and in schraf too. It's not a bad thing at all. I think about doing that quite often. (giving up TV altogether)
BTW, I consider simpsons crap, and I do not watch it.
But, one day in Puerto Rico, I was watching a basketball game (the knicks) and there was a commercial break that showed scenes from a movie. There was 5 kids under the age of 8 watching the game with us, and in one of the scenes, they decide to show someone get their head blown off. Full graphics. I don't find that acceptable at all.
I honestly don't understand why people nowadays like to watch those reality bullshit, especially when the show is basically about people being mean to each other.
Because it is there, and people can make money off them watching it. It doesn't matter if it a bad influence on anybody, money talks. We only protect ourselves from ourselves whenever it is convienent.
But beside the tv, you also have another option, which I have been using for the last 6 years or so. The radio seems to work fine for me. In fact, I listen to npr about half my day everyday. I have it on right now.
We don't know where your from, but here in NY, talk radio is horrible. It's worse than TV in some aspects.
What's the moral of the story, riverrat? If you don't like the movie jackass, don't watch it. If you don't like all the bullcrap on tv, watch something else or don't watch at all.
I don't but others do, and it changes them, which in fact may one day cause harm to me, or one of my kids. Just look at the attitude of kids these days, and you'll understand why.
It is beyond me just not looking, it affects me, whether I watch it or not. It affects my children whether they watch it or not.
If you don't like to see boys kissing, don't look.
I need a warning device, so I don't catch that 1/100th of a second it takes to turn away. lol'
If you don't want to recognize gay marriage, then don't
But I do.
Heck, if you think masturbation is work of the devil, then don't masturbate.
If you can not masturbate, which I tried for 5 months once, it is a good thing. There are benifits to that. But if you can't contain yourself, then better to masturbate. For the most part, I do not masturbate that often, it has grown tiresome, and my hand is like an old hag now. I desire love, and companionship with my beautiful wife.
But for the sake of your creator, don't impose your opinion on other people.
For the most part, yes. Everyone has an opinion, and it is our combined opinions that make up our society. Science does not rule our opinions, because science does not have all the answers.
I don't choose a religious view, because I actually love to sin. I see the value in all the things that Jesus was teaching us, including judging others. That's why I find it ok for gays to marry.
It says right in the Declaration of Independence that all persons are entitled to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
And those rights are bestowed upon us by whom?
Liberty means not be blocked of certain rights because people like you don't like to see two boys kissing. Pursuit of happiness means be able to live a life style that makes one happy as long as it doesn't hurt you or get in your face.
I understand that. Some people do not like to see me fly my radio control planes. I guess we all have to compromise.
You do realize that the states with the most divorces are republican states, right? As a matter of fact, the top 7 or so states that have the highest divorce rates are also the states in the union that have banned gay marriage.
That is exactly what I am talking about.
How come nobody protested or demanded a law to ban straight marriage after Brit Spears got married for fun for 55 hours? How come nobody is demanding that Rush Limbaugh be tarred and feathered? Between him and his wife, they have 6 marriages and divorces, and last I heard they are going through a divorce... but that could be old news.
But this is exactly what I just said a few posts back. You cannot use the failure of straight marraige as a reason for gay marraige. There must be a word for that. Strawman maybe?
Riverrat, I think you responded there in a little bit of anger. After having read some of your previous posts, which still tell me that you are a homophobe that is afraid of being a called a homophobe and also someone that have concluded unwillingly that what you said there in reference to what was quoted doesn't make any sense. Therefore, I'm going to let this slide for now.
Listen dude, I am not a homophobe. I am not afraid of gays, or gay marraige, or what it will do to our society. When I die, I know where I am going.
I have stated many times, that I do not understand same sex attraction, or how it develops in a person. That is perfectly normal. I do find the act of gay sex disgusting, just like snot hanging from your nose. That is also perfectly normal.
I also do not appreciate being called something I am not. I have nothing to fear, as I put my trust in a higher authority. Even before I knew God the way I do now, I was not afraid of it.
I can remember times when people would attack this kid in school because he was gay, and I stood up for him. I love my gay friends, they are awesome people.
Would you like to attend the reception?
I'll be there, camcorder in hand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Taz, posted 09-20-2006 1:45 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by nator, posted 09-21-2006 11:01 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 108 of 125 (350974)
09-21-2006 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by nator
09-20-2006 9:40 PM


Re: The possible
The divorce rate is around 20% in the US. That means that four out of five marriages are intact.
Last I heard, and last we argued, it was down to 50%.
But some of those divorces are people who get more than one divorce.
quote:
3. PROJECTION/PREDICTION. This is the Census Bureau's often-cited "50%" rate, the proportion of marriages taking place right now that will eventually divorce, which has since been revised downward to roughly 43% by the National Center for Health Statistics but was moved back up to around 50% by the Census Bureau in 2002, with even more ifs ands and buts than usual. Most recently, according to the New York Times, it has been revised downward to just over 40%.
http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html
why would you deny them to people who want them?
For the last time, I am not denying anyone, anything.
Boy your thick.
Are you saying you wish to change the US constitution to keep gays from marrying?
You need Jesus.
You noted that straights have screwed up marriage as if that was some justification for denying it to gays.
No, I pointed out that, the success rate of straight marriage has nothing to do with whether gay get married or not.
It is a strawman arguement.
There isn't much on TV that is worth the time I waste sitting on the couch.
But, why wouldn't I allow the existence of TV? It doesn't bother me.
Keep in mind schraf, and I say this to you and your husband with much love. If you guys ever decide to have kids, and you keep them from the TV, that all the kids they hang out with at school will be watching TV, and learning from it, then teaching it to your kids. So your decision to not watch TV, or let your kids watch TV, will be irrelevant. It affects all the people around you, people you have to deal with every day.
You find it ok that TV reports invalid scientific facts?
That the news, is nothing more than propaganda, and encourages bad things in our society sometimes?
That infomercials can claim whatever they want, regardless if it is true or not?
That drug companies advertise their drugs to the general public, that does not have licsense to get the drugs?
The list goes on and on.
I am not saying all TV is bad. I mostly stick to sports, news, science channel, and discovery, and history, with a few movies here and there.
But even history channel will brodcast things about the history of religion that may not be true. Things that would discourage people from seeking God. But they also brodcast things that would encourage you seeking God. So at least they are fair, provided you catch both programs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by nator, posted 09-20-2006 9:40 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by nator, posted 09-21-2006 11:37 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 109 of 125 (350985)
09-21-2006 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by riVeRraT
09-21-2006 9:42 AM


Re: The possible
quote:
BTW, I consider simpsons crap, and I do not watch it.
The Simpson's is one of the best, most intelligent shows to ever be broadcast over the airwaves.
quote:
We don't know where your from, but here in NY, talk radio is horrible. It's worse than TV in some aspects.
National Public Radio isn't "talk radio" as you refer to it. It broadcasts no trash and is highly intelligent and educational as well as entertaining.
Here is a link to find the NPR affiliate closest to you.
quote:
I don't but others do, and it changes them, which in fact may one day cause harm to me, or one of my kids. Just look at the attitude of kids these days, and you'll understand why.
It is beyond me just not looking, it affects me, whether I watch it or not. It affects my children whether they watch it or not.
Well, then, we should abolish all religion, because it changes people and makes them believe all sorts of crazy stuff, and some of those who believe may decide they need to abuse or kill others because they don't believe the same as them.
Such is life, rat. You cannot control everyone else's life just because you are afraid of what might happen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by riVeRraT, posted 09-21-2006 9:42 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by riVeRraT, posted 09-21-2006 5:25 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 110 of 125 (350993)
09-21-2006 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by riVeRraT
09-21-2006 9:56 AM


Re: The possible
quote:
Last I heard, and last we argued, it was down to 50%.
That is a misleading, false statistic.
quote:
But some of those divorces are people who get more than one divorce.
...which skew the result to a misleading number. Most first marriages do not end in divorce (only about one third fail, and do so in the first 10 years). It's the people who marry and divorce many times that are driving these apparently high numbers.
There is some interesting data available on this subject.
here, here, here
And the actual rate does seem to depend upon which group one is referring to.
But 50% has never been true, as you noted in your link. The divorce rate in the US has never exceeded 41%, and among some groups (such as college-educated women, and also people marrying over the age of 20) it is much lower. It is much higher among other groups, like conservative Chritians.
quote:
Keep in mind schraf, and I say this to you and your husband with much love. If you guys ever decide to have kids, and you keep them from the TV, that all the kids they hang out with at school will be watching TV, and learning from it, then teaching it to your kids.
So what? I never said that TV is the devil. I am mostly bored to tears by it.
The issue with TV and children is that it is too often used as a babysitter and keeps small children from learning to entertain themselves. I'd rather have them play video games, honesly, and if there are DVD's appropriate for them, then they could watch those.
quote:
So your decision to not watch TV, or let your kids watch TV, will be irrelevant.
Hardly.
It's a lot like food.
Soda was never allowed in my house growing up, although I drank it at friends' houses and at fast food places. I don't buy it now, nor did I ever buy it on a regular basis. I never did the caffeine thing, either, so I don't drink tea or coffee except every once in a while.
My husband, however, always had soda, specifically cola, in his house growing up, and therefore always bought it in college and drank it almost every day (up until fairly recently) from a vending machine at work. He most likely has been addicted to caffeine for nearly 30 years, and has only recently stopped his daily consumption of soda in favor of tea.
quote:
It affects all the people around you, people you have to deal with every day.
Sure, and so does people's involvement in religion, if they are getting any sex, if they have recovered from their childhood emotional abuse, if they are taking any prescription or illicit drugs, etc. etc. etc.
Trying to control everyone else's life is fruitless, rat. If I find that someone is behaving badly to me or mine, I will deal with it with that individual, but other than that I have no reason to meddle in anothers' life.

"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!"
- Ned Flanders
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by riVeRraT, posted 09-21-2006 9:56 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by riVeRraT, posted 09-21-2006 5:31 PM nator has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 111 of 125 (351136)
09-21-2006 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by nator
09-21-2006 11:01 AM


Re: The possible
The Simpson's is one of the best, most intelligent shows to ever be broadcast over the airwaves.
National Public Radio isn't "talk radio" as you refer to it.
I didn't refer to NPR as talk radio.
Well, then, we should abolish all religion, because it changes people and makes them believe all sorts of crazy stuff, and some of those who believe may decide they need to abuse or kill others because they don't believe the same as them.
I am kind of for that.
Such is life, rat. You cannot control everyone else's life just because you are afraid of what might happen.
But that's my point. I am not looking to control others lives, just my own. Everything that happens around me, affects me, and my children. It's called society. The Declaration does not start off by saying I the people. We are not a nation of individuals, or are we a world of individuals as much as we are one human race. Science should have showed you that. The world is a small place now. Turning your head and not looking is NOT the answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by nator, posted 09-21-2006 11:01 AM nator has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 112 of 125 (351138)
09-21-2006 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by nator
09-21-2006 11:37 AM


Re: The possible
The divorce rate in the US has never exceeded 41%, and among some groups (such as college-educated women, and also people marrying over the age of 20) it is much lower.
Is that because the marraige rate is lower?
I'd rather have them play video games, honesly, and if there are DVD's appropriate for them, then they could watch those.
Watch the video games as well. Without me knowing it, my kids started playing a game that was inappropiate and soon their attitudes and tempers were rising. Even innocent fantasy fighting games like street fighter cause an aggression in the children that otherwise wouldn't be as pronounced.
Keep in mind that you cannot take the kid out of a kid, but you have to watch the levels, and the "world" seems to sneek things in there on you.
Hardly.
It's a lot like food.
Hey, I am not asking you to believe me, shit you never believe me anyway. But just keep it in mind, and have an open mind about it, should you ever have kids.
Trying to control everyone else's life is fruitless, rat. If I find that someone is behaving badly to me or mine, I will deal with it with that individual, but other than that I have no reason to meddle in anothers' life.
Which brings me back to original point, that they control certain aspects, and not others. There is no consistency, only a world driven by money.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by nator, posted 09-21-2006 11:37 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by mike the wiz, posted 09-21-2006 6:07 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 113 of 125 (351143)
09-21-2006 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by riVeRraT
09-21-2006 5:31 PM


Your babas baffles are botched
Without me knowing it, my kids started playing a game that was inappropiate and soon their attitudes and tempers were rising
Shraff will just think that's post-hoc knowing her.
Perhaps you'll have to decoke your babas. Remove the baffles and if there's too much world-carbon, wash off with two-parts bible scripture, and one part church attendance.
(............forget it, Americans have never understood my sense of humour.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by riVeRraT, posted 09-21-2006 5:31 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Taz, posted 09-21-2006 6:35 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 115 by riVeRraT, posted 09-22-2006 7:56 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 114 of 125 (351150)
09-21-2006 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by mike the wiz
09-21-2006 6:07 PM


Re: Your babas baffles are botched
Didn't know you had one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by mike the wiz, posted 09-21-2006 6:07 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by mike the wiz, posted 09-22-2006 9:52 AM Taz has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 115 of 125 (351242)
09-22-2006 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by mike the wiz
09-21-2006 6:07 PM


Re: Your babas baffles are botched
Shraff will just think that's post-hoc knowing her.
The whole dam earth is post-hoc
Perhaps you'll have to decoke your babas. Remove the baffles and if there's too much world-carbon, wash off with two-parts bible scripture, and one part church attendance.
(............forget it, Americans have never understood my sense of humour.)
But there is truth in what you say.
My kids are much more peaceful when we take away the TV from them, and read them bible verses.
But I found it funny.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by mike the wiz, posted 09-21-2006 6:07 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by mike the wiz, posted 09-22-2006 9:51 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 118 by Taz, posted 09-22-2006 1:24 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 116 of 125 (351267)
09-22-2006 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by riVeRraT
09-22-2006 7:56 AM


Re: Your babas baffles are botched
But there is truth in what you say.
My kids are much more peaceful when we take away the TV from them, and read them bible verses
I like the Abraham story. The BBC animation of it is good. I recommend it.
But I found it funny.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by riVeRraT, posted 09-22-2006 7:56 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 117 of 125 (351268)
09-22-2006 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Taz
09-21-2006 6:35 PM


Re: Your babas baffles are botched

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Taz, posted 09-21-2006 6:35 PM Taz has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 118 of 125 (351317)
09-22-2006 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by riVeRraT
09-22-2006 7:56 AM


Re: Your babas baffles are botched
riverrat writes:
My kids are much more peaceful when we take away the TV from them, and read them bible verses.
I just had a flashback.
When I was a good little jesus freak, I was told about the story of how Moses lead the Israelites out of Egypt and to the promise land. I didn't know it back then, but the story always skipped from the part about the 10 commandments to the establishment of the Kingdom of Israel.
When I became older, I was attending a bible school and we watched a movie about the moses story. I remember being so surprised when the movie went on to tell the story of how the Israelites conquered the region and what happened to the people of cities like Jerico.
Don't you just love it when parents selectively leave out the parts in the bible that condones rape, genocide, murder, incest, etc.?
If you're going to raise your kids as literalists, at least raise them as literalists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by riVeRraT, posted 09-22-2006 7:56 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by ReverendDG, posted 09-23-2006 5:25 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 121 by riVeRraT, posted 09-23-2006 7:14 PM Taz has not replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3426 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 119 of 125 (351538)
09-23-2006 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by riVeRraT
09-16-2006 7:34 AM


Re: The possible
Sorry if this is slightly OT, but I couldn't let this slide.
But I am not convinced that the gay suicide rate is higher, purely on the basis that they get treated differently. Most teenagers do not get treated the way they think they should, and have a hard time adjusting to growing up. Could it be that these "gay" teenagers were already screwd up more than the average teenager, and they are already at a place where they just need one more thing to go wrong?
This answer would be pertinent if, indeed, schraf had asserted that the gay teen suicide rate was high purely due to being treated differently. However, schraf's point had to do with teaching your kids that it is not OK to be gay and she implied that the suicide rate likely has alot to do with this.
Gay kids (or kids perceived to be gay by others whether or not it is true) are definitely subjected to harassment and cruelty and that by itself can indeed lead to suicidal thoughts if it is bad enough, but the fact that some of these kids' parents espouse a homophobic viewpoint at home gives many the sense that they have no one to turn to to help them and that leaves them feeling even more despondent. Doubly so if their family's entire social circle consists of people with the same views. Triply so, if the kid comes out and his/her parents beat them/kick them out/tell them they wish they were dead/etc. So, if a kid lives in an area with no social services for gay youth or if s/he has no way to access them, then the kid may feel that suicide is the only option.
I don't feel that most gay kids with parents who accept them or do not express negative feelings towards gays would feel that they had no other choice because they would know that they could talk to their parents about it and they would still love and accept them and that their home would be a haven away from the harassment outside. And that can be the line between life and death for these kids.
So, even if you feel that you could accept your child being gay, expressing homophobic views around your potentially gay kid will at best strain your relationship with him/her and at worst will cause your child to run away or hurt/kill themselves.
Believe me, I have heard and seen it all. Between my own friends and the gay kids I have mentored over the years I have heard some truly heartbreaking stories. I was the token gay kid who wasn't comtemplating suicide/had never contemplated suicide in a news special where I grew up. Out of the 30 or so kids in my gay youth group I was the only one who could honestly say they had never thought about it. And this was in an environment where there weresocial services for kids (the group being one). Most of their parents had verbally/physically abused them and/or kicked them out. The group likely saved most of their lives.
Everytime I hear another horror story from one of my friends about how they were treated by their parents I call my mom and dad immediately and thank them for accepting me and loving me unconditionally.
As for the kids being more screwed up in the first place, many anti-gay advocates point to the higher suicide rate along with the prevalence of drug and alcohol use to "show" that it is an indication of our inherent degeneracy, when in fact it is often the result of past and current harassment, family estrangement, living on the streets due to being kicked out/running away, childhood abuse, rejection from their church (sometimes their only previous sense of identity), etc.
I would agree that some gay kids enter adolescence already thinking that they are different and already having been subjected to schoolyard harassment and abuse at home due to that, but I would love for you to try to find some evidence indicating that gays are more screwed up from the get-go. Good luck!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by riVeRraT, posted 09-16-2006 7:34 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4111 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 120 of 125 (351543)
09-23-2006 5:25 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Taz
09-22-2006 1:24 PM


Re: Your babas baffles are botched
heck they do that with all of the bible these days, they want to make the bible all warm and fluffy. i guess you have to be certain type of christian not to see what god does as less that good. but being god means that he gets excused for tihngs like that i guess.
its funny, now we are taught to think even in the face of getting people angry, or to question authority even gods, so now they just don't talk about the bad things god does so they don't lose people because of it
i shake my head at the conflicting messeges parents and teachers and authority figures send at kids. question everything, but what I say about things.
if it wasn't for the fact that its common everywhere i'd go to another country

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Taz, posted 09-22-2006 1:24 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by riVeRraT, posted 09-23-2006 7:17 PM ReverendDG has not replied

  
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