Is anyone else fed up with Muslims complaining all the time?

They get the blame because they weren't a civilizing influence in Europe. They spread and enforced ignorance on a grand scale. Other than consolidation of power under oppressive regimes, I'm not exactly sure where you come up with the phrase "civilizing" to describe it. Much knowledge and individual human spirit was lost and had to be regained.Essentially they broke it, they bought it.Edited by holmes, : longer/clearer

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holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

Say what??? Okay, like I said atheists don't complain in the same way as we have seen with muslims in the mideast, but when the Pope says bad stuff about atheists, abortion, homosexuality, and science I know I have seen atheists get upset. I have even seen protests.I assume the muslims get upset for the same reason. There are a lot of OTHER people who do listen to that old guy in the dress and so what he says carries weight which can effect their way of life. Its kind of like them caring about what Bush says or does. Just because he isn't their president doesn't mean he can't adversely effect them. I could have sworn we've had plenty of threads at EvC with atheists complaining about what the Pope and many fundie leaders have been saying. But let's say that isn't true, maybe there's a difference between atheists in the UK v the US.I'm an atheist and can thoroughly admit that I have gotten upset about what these religious leaders have said, and know others than have as well. Its not like we took any of their statements seriously in the sense that they are making stating some objective truth that hurts us. Its that they are distorting facts and using pretty obnoxious arguments which their followers will use to dictate policy which effects us in very real ways.

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holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

I'll just have to take your word that no true scotsmen-who-are-atheists ever complain about what the pope says.At any rate, excuse me all over the place for being an American Atheist. In contrast, I guess everyone now understands what scotch atheists complain about.Heheheh.

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holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

I thought that was robin rohan's domain.

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holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

But you have always avoided being critical of the violent ideology and practices of people like Moses and King David as justified in the Old Testament, nor the violent ideology and practices of Jews or Protestants when appealing to those portions of scripture.Its not like Xians just read the new testament and dismiss the old. They readily use justifications from the old testament which is about people in the exact same position as Mohammed was... trying to found a religion and place to live for his people.Indeed you particularly avoid the point that Jesus, no matter how peaceful he might have been, found justification for his rule by directly appealing to his legacy from the much more lusty and violent figure of King David.By the way, perhaps you can explain how building the modern state of Israel is justified? Perhaps you cen explain what you think its creation will ultimately entail for the world? No one is going to suffer or die in its creation, or after its creation fulfills a prophecy?Where is the justification for the violence that is to occur?

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holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)