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Author Topic:   YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread.
macnietspingal
Inactive Member


Message 196 of 298 (351741)
09-24-2006 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by arachnophilia
09-23-2006 10:06 PM


Re: Correcting a slightly old wrong
What's wonderful about the Webster is you can write in the lingua frenca and still be able to personalize and think Hebrew. Hebrew is a very simplishtic language. Full of capabilities of meaning two things at once. That's why there's so much down-to-earth humor in the culture. I composed selected verses from Psalm 22 my way using Webster's New World (Hayam Baltsam) and it mades Y'H'W'H my personal Torah consultant. Together with the Trope Trainer cdrom I've got a rabbi in my house. It's do it yourself Judaism. The other day I also got support from JWR newsletter that there are others who think Judaism is not a religion. So at last I'm not controlled by the "minders" of the world.
After 25 years of this kind of home schooling, I've got the Pope on my side, JWR, always the Encyc Britannica all my life, the Webster, Trope Trainer, and a few humans who liked the way I think, understood and kept me trucking by suggested readings. The 21st century is wonderful. Israel will always be with us. As far as I'm concerned I am experiencing the Resurrection of RaMBaM in a nation that doesn't make me submit to Muhammad and excise tax me for simply writing this way. On top of it all I hope I will be able to read Dr. Warren Zev Harvey's editted translation of Rabbi Hasdai Crescas's OR ADONAI/(Y'H'W'H). That's the missing link in all this evolution of the Torah Scrolls. Even the missing link in the whole debate about creation vs evolution.
When I was growing up the saying was the Torah Scrolls had all the information one needed. I've always thought that was silly. My research has corrected that impression. When Constantine created Christianity he did something equal to the Holocaust, he killed any Christian who managed religion via the Talmud Torah method. That is going to change eventually. The problem with my fellow Jews is they still think they have the property rights to the Torah.
If Israel had included Talmud Torah for all Israelis and treated the Torah Scrolls as a library of ancinet history, the world might not be so violent. I'll never know if my theory is true or not, but it's a hopeful theory for me.
My brain reminded me to add this evolutionary process which is part of my research and true.
First to shorten your understanding I cite the history of the Platforms of the USA Reform Judaism movement now called Union of Reform Judaism.
Because I got an Orthodox Ed (daily after public school) I fell in love with being able to read Hebrew myself. That gave me (on welfare) equality with all my peers. I also was raised without a male authority figure so this helped that way because I was studying with boys. The only difference was secret management of the Torah reading. Girls were excluded. I had no respect for the Washington Hebrew Congregation because they demeaned Hebrew and I thought that was not being democratic but authoritarian. I thought all Reform Jews were really "Christians". Then in 1993 my granddaughter who learned in a conservative synagogue and later was switched to a
Reform synagogue had a Bat Mitsvah on Shabbat and I was called to read from the Torah as well as my two daughters. I was in shock. In 1997 I joined the choir of Temple Emanu-El and experienced the entire change in the Platform of the Reform Movement.
Today all Jews are united by a global agreement to participate in a universal Talmud management and "Trope Trainer" management of rituals and philosophy, in examining every single word of the Torah Scrolls. FINALLY!! That's why Israel will always exist!!
Edited by macnietspingal, : Added another fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by arachnophilia, posted 09-23-2006 10:06 PM arachnophilia has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Nighttrain, posted 09-24-2006 6:44 AM macnietspingal has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 197 of 298 (351742)
09-24-2006 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by macnietspingal
09-24-2006 6:12 AM


Re: Correcting a slightly old wrong
When I was growing up the saying was the Torah Scrolls had all the information one needed
Sounds a bit like a goofy saying some Muslims use. Regarding the role of books---'If it`s covered by the Quran, it`s unnecessary. If it`s not covered by the Quran, it`s unnecessary'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by macnietspingal, posted 09-24-2006 6:12 AM macnietspingal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by macnietspingal, posted 09-24-2006 7:25 AM Nighttrain has replied

  
macnietspingal
Inactive Member


Message 198 of 298 (351745)
09-24-2006 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by Nighttrain
09-24-2006 6:44 AM


Re: Correcting a slightly old wrong
That response tells me a lot about your education. Be careful, you are judged by the labels you use. Remember, I said I thought so too. I suggest you join a class like I did two years ago discussing Reading Tractate Sanhedrin from the Talmud. Until the '90's, all Reform Jews thought like you did. I did most of my life too. However, my recent purchase of the translation of Rashi and my participation in Talmud discussions groups has changed that "goofy" to "my goodness, I understand now." BTW, if there were a Talmud Koran in the Iran, Egypt, Iraq, Syria these poor Muslim souls wouldn't be "goofy" too. Muhammad observed scientifically the environment in the Middle East in his time. He was a true politican (together with his wealthy wife) and realized the power he could wield. You do know the Koran is not compiled in a straight forward manner. It is compiled with word counts and in order of length. I suggest you download the free one at Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam) (Berkeley) and start your own detective search of the Koran. You might change your mind as I have done. I did the same with MEIN KAMPF and created a Jew file. Hitler was as crazy as Muhammad, both superb politicians.
I'll give you my favorite quotes from MEIN KAMPF which gives me a scientific observation of Christians. I remind you that it is necessary to know that the scientific theory was that there was such a thing as transmission of intelligence by "race", in the blood at that time.
"Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable
stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin
the fight for the 'remaking' of the Reich as they call it."
-Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 1
........
"And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will
of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am
defending the handiwork of the Lord
Here we meet the insolent objection, which is Jewish in its
inspiration and is typical of the modern pacifist. It says: "Man can
control even Nature."
Here also everything is copied, or
rather stolen; for the Jew could not possess any religious institution
which had developed out of his own consciousness, seeing
that he lacks every kind of idealism; which means that belief in a life
beyond this terrestrial existence is foreign to him. In the
Aryan mind no religion can ever be imagined unless it embodies the
conviction that life in some form or other will continue after
death. As a matter of fact, the Talmud is not a book that lays down
principles according to which the individual should prepare
for the life to come. It only furnishes rules for a practical and
convenient life in this world.
------------------
The failure of this Party to carry into effect the dream of saving
Austria from dissolution must be attributed to two main defects in the means
they employed and also the lack of a clear perception of the ends they
wished to reach.
The anti-Semitism of the Christian-Socialists was based on religious
instead of racial principles. The reason for this mistake gave rise to the
second error also.
The founders of the Christian-Socialist Party were of the opinion that they could not base their position on the racial principle if they wished to save Austria, because they felt that a general disintegration of the State might quickly result from the adoption of such a policy. In the opinion of the Party chiefs the situation in Vienna demanded that all factors which tended to estrange the nationalities from one another should be carefully avoided and that all factors making for unity should be encouraged.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Nighttrain, posted 09-24-2006 6:44 AM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by Nighttrain, posted 09-26-2006 8:40 AM macnietspingal has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 199 of 298 (352335)
09-26-2006 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by macnietspingal
09-24-2006 7:25 AM


Re: Correcting a slightly old wrong
Been there, done that. I left the wacko world that you embrace far behind. Praise the world of rational thinking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by macnietspingal, posted 09-24-2006 7:25 AM macnietspingal has not replied

  
rizal
Junior Member (Idle past 6182 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 04-19-2007


Message 200 of 298 (396206)
04-19-2007 6:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
10-05-2003 9:06 PM


Dear Friends
ALLAH just simply translated as GOD, He is not moon god, He has 99 beautiful names in Islam, YHWH is GOD name in Bible but no one sure what is the meaning, since this word is Taboo for ancient Jewish to speak.
Suggest to visit http://www.thetruecall.com/home/modules.php?name=News&fil...
I hope it could open your mind and view about relation between Allah (islam) and YHWH in Bible and make the truth clearer.
Salam

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 10-05-2003 9:06 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by arachnophilia, posted 04-19-2007 3:27 PM rizal has replied
 Message 208 by Buzsaw, posted 04-20-2007 8:53 PM rizal has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 201 of 298 (396304)
04-19-2007 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by rizal
04-19-2007 6:09 AM


salaam, and welcome to evc.
you've bumped a relatively old thread here, and some of the things you write have almost certainly been covered already. for instance:
ALLAH just simply translated as GOD, He is not moon god,
i'm almost positive i remember posting something to this effect earlier in this thread, specifically the linguistic relationship of the ilah part of al(-i)lah to the hebrew elohim. one is the cognate of the other, though "allah" is linguistically more exclusive, as it means the god, not just god/gods in general.
YHWH is GOD name in Bible but no one sure what is the meaning, since this word is Taboo for ancient Jewish to speak.
this is just false. the same word as different parts of speech is actually quite common in both biblical and modern hebrew. it's meaning is also related to a pun that occurs in the text, when god first speaks to moshe.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by rizal, posted 04-19-2007 6:09 AM rizal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Nighttrain, posted 04-20-2007 12:03 AM arachnophilia has not replied
 Message 203 by rizal, posted 04-20-2007 2:58 AM arachnophilia has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 202 of 298 (396442)
04-20-2007 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by arachnophilia
04-19-2007 3:27 PM


Wonder whatever happened to Mac der Spigel? Probably out there multi-tasking or synergising or whatever you Hebrew scholars do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by arachnophilia, posted 04-19-2007 3:27 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
rizal
Junior Member (Idle past 6182 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 04-19-2007


Message 203 of 298 (396457)
04-20-2007 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by arachnophilia
04-19-2007 3:27 PM


Salaam arachnophilia,
Yes sorry it should be "The God" not just "God"
For YHWH you representing by , I don't know since I'm not Jewish but I found at Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions, there are so many alternative words to representing YHWH and also found on that site.
So if you understand well about hebrew could you tell me the real meaning of YHWH (in all words) then we could compare to 99 God's names in Islam at http://www.asmaulhusna.com/
I'm also thirsty to find the truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by arachnophilia, posted 04-19-2007 3:27 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Nighttrain, posted 04-20-2007 3:27 AM rizal has replied
 Message 206 by arachnophilia, posted 04-20-2007 10:59 AM rizal has not replied
 Message 207 by Nighttrain, posted 04-20-2007 8:43 PM rizal has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 204 of 298 (396458)
04-20-2007 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by rizal
04-20-2007 2:58 AM


Welcome, Rizal. If ever there is a place to slake your thirst, it`s at EvC. Time we had another Islamic voice here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by rizal, posted 04-20-2007 2:58 AM rizal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by rizal, posted 04-20-2007 3:44 AM Nighttrain has not replied

  
rizal
Junior Member (Idle past 6182 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 04-19-2007


Message 205 of 298 (396459)
04-20-2007 3:44 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by Nighttrain
04-20-2007 3:27 AM


thanks nighttrain for your warm welcome

This message is a reply to:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 206 of 298 (396491)
04-20-2007 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by rizal
04-20-2007 2:58 AM


For YHWH you representing by , I don't know since I'm not Jewish but I found at Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions, there are so many alternative words to representing YHWH and also found on that site.
oh no, you misunderstood. is just my signature, it another jewish name: "arach." it's a play on my screenname.
So if you understand well about hebrew could you tell me the real meaning of YHWH (in all words) then we could compare to 99 God's names in Islam at http://www.asmaulhusna.com/
is a version of the verb l'hyot (to be) turned into a proper noun. the most commonly used form in hebrew is hayah, meaning "was." it also means "is" but it's never actually used in the present tense. is general considered to be present tense, though future tenses are also ok. i'm not terribly clear on future tense in hebrew -- it doesn't have true tenses, really. but it's generally rendered "yahweh" and means "he who exists."
when moshe asks god his name, he says , ahayah asher ahayah. "i am that i am," or possibly "i will be what i will be." god's name is derived from the verb in that sentance.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by rizal, posted 04-20-2007 2:58 AM rizal has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 207 of 298 (396560)
04-20-2007 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by rizal
04-20-2007 2:58 AM


99
So if you understand well about hebrew could you tell me the real meaning of YHWH (in all words) then we could compare to 99 God's names in Islam at http://www.asmaulhusna.com/
Hi, Rizal, that link shows that the 99 names might be man-made titles, not something passed down by Gabriel to Mohammed. I could stand corrected. For an in-depth study of the possible origin of 'God`s'name, try 'The Bible came from Arabia'-Kamal Salibi where he states 'More likely than not, Yahweh, like El Elyon, was originally a god of mountain heights. His name has been the subject of much learned controversy, yet it can be simply explained as an archaic substantive of the verb hwh (rather than the oft-suggested hyh, 'be'), not in the Hebrew and Arabic sense of 'fall', but in the Arabic sense (unattested in Hebrew) of 'rise, be elevated'. His name alone, in that sense, must have recommended him for recognition as a supreme and transcendent deity'.
Oddly, while Salibi goes to considerable lengths to name the pantheon of Arabic deities (Al Salamah, Al Alyan, Al al-A'lam, etc., he devotes no space to the study of Al-lah. But then living in Lebanon probably is risky at the best of times.
Edited by Nighttrain, : minor touch-up

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 208 of 298 (396562)
04-20-2007 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by rizal
04-19-2007 6:09 AM


rizal writes:
ALLAH just simply translated as GOD, He is not moon god, He has 99 beautiful names in Islam, YHWH is GOD name in Bible but no one sure what is the meaning, since this word is Taboo for ancient Jewish to speak.
Hi Rizal. Saalam and a hearty welcome to EvC. We hope you will hang out here and bless us with your input as we hope also to bless you with what we have to offer.
1. Rizal, do you understand the difference between a proper name of a person or god and a descriptive adjective which describes a person or god?
If you do, you understand that the proper name of a person or god is the one name which specifically identifies the person or god. The proper name of President Bush is George W Bush. The words "man" and "president" are descriptive words. The name YHWH/YAWEH/JEHOVAH is the proper name of the god of the Bible. The meaning of this name is "the existing one," or "the I am," or as you say "the living one." This god is the god of both the Old Testament and the New Testament since Jesus identifies as the son of the OT god, YHWH/(Hebrew)/Yahweh (English pronunciation of the Hebrew/ Jehovah, (English translation of YHWH).
2. The proper name of your Islamic Quranic god is Allah, which means god or the god. There is only one proper name of the gods of both the Bible and the Quran and they are not one and the same.
3. I don't know where you're from, but I do know this. If you are from one of the fundamentalist totalitarian Islamic nations and you go on a preaching mission preaching Jehovah, the god of the Bible you will find yourself in serious legal trouble and likely in prison or dead. Or if you go on a preaching mission preaching the gospel of the Biblical god's son Jesus the same fate will befall you.
All the alleged names cited in this link are not proper names but descriptive adjectives of the Quranic god Allah. The Bible is full of this sort of descriptive language regarding the Biblical god Jehovah also.
rizal writes:
I hope it could open your mind and view about relation between Allah (islam) and YHWH in Bible and make the truth clearer.
The old saying goes, "iron sharpens iron." so we all acquire wisdom, knowledge and understanding as we dialog and debate on
the wonderful www.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by arachnophilia, posted 04-22-2007 2:31 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 210 by Modulous, posted 04-22-2007 5:34 AM Buzsaw has not replied
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 209 of 298 (396791)
04-22-2007 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by Buzsaw
04-20-2007 8:53 PM


2. The proper name of your Islamic Quranic god is Allah, which means god or the god. There is only one proper name of the gods of both the Bible and the Quran and they are not one and the same.
you know very well that the ilah part of "allah" in arabic and the eloh part of "elohim" in hebrew are cognates. the same word in two different languages.
what makes "allah" a name is that it has been elevated to such. in judaism, one is not allowed to speak god's proper name. as such, in some texts it is even missing, and god is simply referred to as "elohim." it's quite possible that people reading texts influenced by this practive (ie: the english bible) will draw the conclusion that god's name is "God." which is how you hear english speakers refer to him, as if it were a proper name.
it's almost certainly the same process that happened in islam. or worse yet for the judeo-christian ideology, it might be adopted straight from the proper name "el" that exists in every semitic mesopotamian culture -- which is likely the origin of the word "el" as a title. ironically, it was a name first. it's this "yahweh" stuff that's new, and this "jehovah" garbage that's a misreading of that.
also, didn't your admin incarnation ban you? what happened? (welcome back?)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Buzsaw, posted 04-20-2007 8:53 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by Buzsaw, posted 04-22-2007 8:57 AM arachnophilia has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 210 of 298 (396804)
04-22-2007 5:34 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by Buzsaw
04-20-2007 8:53 PM


The proper name of your Islamic Quranic god is Allah, which means god or the god. There is only one proper name of the gods of both the Bible and the Quran and they are not one and the same.
Tatanka Iyotake is his real name. However, this translates to 'Male buffalo sit down'. Or 'Sitting Bull'. We very rarely call him by the name of Tatanka Iyotake, but we do know that is who we are talking about. I don't think a native American is talking about a different person because they refer to him in a different language.
The proper name of the Christian god is God. The proper name of the Christian messiah is Jesus. Of course, God is sometimes called YHWH, sometimes we call him Jehovah, or Yehovah. Sometimes we call him Adonai, or Yahweh. You say as much yourself. This means 'I am that I am' or something approaching it. The Muslims state that one of the names for God is 'I am that I am' - or something approaching it. They don't use English though - they use Arabic.
However Jesus' name is Joshua in English. It is Yeshua in Hebrew, Iesus in Latin and Iesuous in Greek (approximately). Yeshua meaning, in simple terms, 'saviour'. In Arabic they call him Isa, or sometimes Fida, which means either 'saviour' or 'martyr' (You've seen this before in the name fida'iyeen). Despite it not being a proper name, we frequently use 'the annointed one' as a proper name, though in a different language: Christ.
3. I don't know where you're from, but I do know this. If you are from one of the fundamentalist totalitarian Islamic nations and you go on a preaching mission preaching Jehovah, the god of the Bible you will find yourself in serious legal trouble and likely in prison or dead. Or if you go on a preaching mission preaching the gospel of the Biblical god's son Jesus the same fate will befall you.
And likewise, if you were in a fundamentalist totalitarian Catholic nation and you go on a mission preaching Protestantism you will find yourself in serious legal trouble and likely in prison or dead. That doesn't mean they are different deities. Neither do the Sunnis worship a different deity than the Shiites.
However, one thing for sure - they all worship the deity that allegedly revealed himself to Abraham, that had a prophets called Moses and Noah. That created the world 6-10k years ago, man out of clay, a flood erasing the mistakes. All that jazz. They just argue over some specific properties and characteristics (eg can God have a son? Jews and Muslims: No! That's heresy! Christians: Yes!)
All the alleged names cited in this link are not proper names but descriptive adjectives of the Quranic god Allah.
Alleged names? Muslims state that these are the names for the deity they believe in. Are you trying to tell Islam what it should believe?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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