Is anyone else fed up with Muslims complaining all the time?

Actually, a very brief glance at this issue (okay, just looked at the Wikipedia article, the amount of actual violence has been rather minimal and has mainly occurred where the society is already in a state of war (Iraq, Palestine, and Somalia). It seems that most of the "violence" has confined to demonstrations -- which would appear to me to be a reasonable way to express one's indignation. At least the events so far don't seem to be particularly unique to Muslims.Anyone else have more comprehensive statistics on the level of violence?

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

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People should have the right to condemn each others' religion all they like. It's called 'free speech'.

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Yes, and so is the condemnation of that condemnation. Seeing that so far it appears that actual violent reactions like church burnings are few and far between and pretty much confined to known war zones that have no shortage of atrocities, anti-Christian or otherwise, and that Muslim reaction seems to be mostly confined to demonstrations, then you should have no problem, eh? I mean, seeing that you are all for free speech and all.-

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The irony is that they've even burned down Orthodox churches (Israel | Fox News ). The Orthodox Church of course has nothing whatsoever to do with the Pope.

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The irony is seeing how people are condemining all Muslims by the actions of a few and then complaining when some Muslims (which ironically becomes all Muslims) act as if all Christians are the same.

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

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You seem to be equating free speech with violent demonstrations and the burning of churches.

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I suppose that it would seem that way to someone who has a learning disability. To someone who has reasonably proficient reading skills, it would be clear that I pointed out that it seems to be that the violence has not been very wide spread and fairly localized to areas that are suffering from general unrest due to ongoing warfare.I could be wrong. Maybe every single church in every single country that has a large Muslim population is burning right now. I haven't seen any news to that effect. In fact in an earlier post (which you might have missed -- or maybe you read it and interpreted it as more advocation of church burning) I asked whether anyone had more comprehensive news about how violent these demonstrations are. It is too bad that you decided that it isn't necessary to provide us the details that would make this situation clearer.Of course, even if the demonstrations are violent, one still should examine the entire historical and political context in which this is occurring rather than jumping into the "Muslims this, muslim that" rhetoric which would only serve to further inflame the situation.-

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Noone (certainly not me) is condemning all Muslims .

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I dunno. Here is the quote from the post to which I was responding: It sounds fairly general to me, and considering some of the anti-Muslim "They are all out to kill us!" rhetoric that we've seen on this very board, I wonder whether it is really too much to ask people to be a little more careful in expressing what they mean.

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

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(emphasis is mine)

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Your bolding left out a key phrase. Let me repeat what I said, with the proper emphasis: Unless you are going to claim that all the demonstrations have been violent. Which they might have been, but that is what I have been asking the whole time.-

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?? so...using the same reasoning, when I'm responding to, say, iano or Faith and I say something like 'Christians piss me off ' (as I have done) am I saying that the totality of Christianity (every single one of 2.5 billion people) piss me off or is it just iano, Faith and people who think / act like them ??

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Without knowing the context, my first assumption would be that you did mean the majority of Christians. There are people who, like me, actually do take a dim view of religions like Christianity (and Islam, for that matter) in general. Such a view point is not uncommon. I mean, if you were just referring to Faith and/or iano, why wouldn't you say, "Fundamentalists" or "Literalists" or "Christians like you"?By the way, I also tend to make over general statements myself, but at least I understand it when someone decides to call me on it.

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

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So maybe we should be looking at what actually causes them, so we have a better shot at preventing them in the future.

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But without enemies who will our leaders protect us from?

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

I wonder how we can explain to them how they are in error? Oh, wait, I have an idea! Let's print a bunch of cartoons showing how silly they all are!Edited by Chiroptera, : typo

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

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Of course Al Jazzera (sp?) wouldn't skew or manufacture news to support their view, would they?

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I dunno. Would they? Why would they? What "view" would they have to support? The view that events are happening, and people need to know about these events? Is the "skewing" or "manufacturing" of news mainly a problem of Al-Jazeera, or is every news organization that reports facts that seem to put US policy into question (and that of its allies) guilty of "skewing" or "manufacturing"?Edited to add:

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It just seemed to me that you were using the shock value of those bloody corpses to imply that whatever the protesters do, it is really all the fault of the Americans.

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That's funny. I don't get that from his post at all. But I'll let Dan tell us what he really meant. I do get the impression from your post that you think that anyone who presents information contrary to US policy (or that of its allies) is probably "skewing" or "manufacturing" the news. Would that be an accurate impression?Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

That is distressing to hear, holmes. Take care and I wish you well.

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You should start with those that most endangering us ... the radical Muslims.

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Let's see. Radical Christians are, right now, enjoying some success in taking control of state institutions with the goal of enforcing their religious beliefs on the rest of us."Radical Muslims" are, for the most part, intent on killing each other in the Middle East, have no means of projecting any political power in North America, and wouldn't even notice us if our army (and our proxies) weren't in their midst, usually to impose some agenda supported by the aforemention Radical Christians.All in all, I would say that the former is more a danger to me and the society in which I live.

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

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We Christians are merely fighting for equal status in the country we founded.

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I don't know which country you are referring to. I live in the United States, which was founded over 200 years ago, so I know that neither you nor your friends could have been involved in that. Also, Christians here don't have to fight for equal status, since they have it and more.-

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One can wear a shirt blaspheming God and it is free speech but if one has a religious symbol in favor of God such as a teacher wearing a cross then they are told to not wear it or be fired.

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I was wondering where this was at. Since you're into backing up statements and all.-

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you live in a country enjoying the freedoms supplied by the very people you claim to fear most.

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Well, in my country, I don't see the radical Christians fighting for any rights. It wasn't them bringing suit against the Bush administration for holding people in custody without access to lawyers or bringing charges against them; it wasn't the Christian Right who protest the Patriot Act, or protested when the U.S. security agencies were wiretapping Americans without a warrant. In fact, the only thing I have ever seen the evangelical Christians protest is when they aren't allowed to use public money to promote their own religious beliefs.It must be terrible, living in your country. You should move to the U.S.

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

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are you really telling me that you are unaware of the nativity scene controversies?

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How is this discrimination against Christians? Maybe you don't quite understand what discrimination means. Discrimination would mean that a Christian nativity scene was not allowed, but, say, a display of an important Hindu event was. That is discrimination. Discrimination means that one religion is favored over others. Or one religion is unfavored compared to others.=

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And the best you can offer about the OP is that we wiretap those who are having conversations with known terrorist groups?

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No, we're talking about wiretapping those that someone somewhere thinks might possibly be having a conversation with someone who might be a terrorist. That is what warrants are for. Warrants are to make sure that the officials have a good reason for their suspicions before they interfere with the rights of someone who might be innocent.-

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That we interrogate suspected enemy combatants who dont get Geneva convention war protections because they dont wear uniforms and subject them to the same conditions that we do our own troops in training?

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Rights are supposed to be for everyone. No one should be subjected to detainment unless the detainer can show that there is good reason for it. This is because (1) even with the best of intentions, government agencies make mistakes, and (2) government officials don't always have the best of intentions.-

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And that is worse than 9/11 and other attacks by Muslims beheading journalists and women with more attacks planned as you read this?

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I never said that it was. Maybe if you would calm down your posts would make more sense.-

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And you never responded to our protections of Islam in Bosnia etc...

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Actually, "we" never protected Islam in Bosnia. If you recall, NATO stood by while the Serbians massacred them. It wasn't until after the worst of the atrocities and the country was effectively partitioned between Serbian, Coatian, and Muslim areas that the Western leaders finally gave Milosevic the warning to stop it. Which he did, seeing how he had pretty much accomplished what he wanted.-At any rate, it would be nice if you would (1) give some examples where Christians are being discriminated against, and (2) and example of some of my rights that the Christian Right is working for.

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw