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Author Topic:   christian nationalism
Damouse
Member (Idle past 3015 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 106 of 110 (317314)
06-03-2006 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by nwr
06-03-2006 5:44 PM


Re: Christian Nationalism
Christianity means putting Christ first, Nationalism means putting ones nation first, how can one do both?

Because you would have to have a christian nation. Quite a scary thing to do with america, simply because of what you would have to do to get everyone to be christian.


-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses
This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by nwr, posted 06-03-2006 5:44 PM nwr has not yet responded

    
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 107 of 110 (317383)
06-03-2006 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by nwr
06-03-2006 5:44 PM


Re: Christian Nationalism
'''Your mistake is to assume that language is logical'''

Well, that's certainly not a logical statement... If langauge is not logical, then what did you say?

You're a treat...

Rob


Any biters in the stream?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by nwr, posted 06-03-2006 5:44 PM nwr has not yet responded

    
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 108 of 110 (317569)
06-04-2006 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Shh
06-03-2006 5:24 PM


Re: Christian Nationalism
It is probably time for me to make a comment that is not simply designed to unveil a lack of 'reason' in others, but actually state an opinion of my own. Hope I haven't ruffled to many feathers along the way. I actually respect the level of intelligence I have witnessed in this forum and especially the members with which I have had exchanges. I hope they've seen that Christians cannot be 'stereotyped' as stupid marching soldiers.
As to the Christian Nationalists, it's pretty simple though misunderstood because the clash of good and evil makes for a convoluted mess. We must think very carefully.

2 Corinthians 10: 3-6
3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

We must read that very carefully, because at the end Paul says 'once your obedience is complete', that 'then' the church will punish disobedience. So as a Christian, it is 'I' who am held to a higher standard.

It is not the Christians job to punish the world when the world does not understand as a presupposition. Jesus came to make the blind see, not to punish the ignorant. He wants us to understand and see, not wallow in abstractions. We can't find our way through the maze, but He knows the way for He is the way.

There are different kinds of 'Christians'. All of them (myself included) claim to be 'Christians. A 'charlatan' should not be hard to recognize, but if the faith is 'presupposed' to be false, then all of the differing churches will simply be more evidence to the biased that the faith is false.

It is my understanding that no real Christian seeks to set up a Theocracy. A Christian should believe that Jesus Himself will set up a theocracy, but that has a completely different connotation to it because God is just, and we are not. To make matters worse, before that happens, a man 'claiming to be God' will show up to solve all the worlds problems. So the 'who's who' question is one that needs to be understood with clarity. Appearances are very deceiving and test us to the bone. (I know some of this Bible prophecy stuff is ridiculous to some of you, so remember I'm stating my opinion). I think we must be very careful if we truly seek to understand. It was Winston Churchill who said, "The truth is the most valuable possession in the world. It is so valuable, that often it is protected by a bodyguard of lies."

Christianity is not an imposition. If it were, God would have created a perfect world to begin with in the sense that we would not have had the choice to sin. Of course we would not be alive in the sense we hold dear, but we would be nice little robots all living in harmony. In that sense God would be a 'Fascistic Utopianist'. To ad further perspective, if there is no 'Hell', then God would also be a fascist. He does not force His will upon us, but I contend that it is His will that is the reality we all seek but misunderstand. To have it, means we must give over control of our deteriorated thinking to Him. We are fallen creatures living in a fallen world.

When you see paramilitary groups who are unabashedly racist and promote stoning as a means of saving the world, just keep in mind that the only thing capable of saving the world, is the thing that can ultimately change the laws of physics, such as the 2nd law of thermodynamics (the future looks bleak). It can also change men so that they stop fearing other men, and instead that 'thing' shows them a mirror to see that they are responsible for their own actions. We like to point fingers at this group or that, but 'man' (as in you and me) is the problem, not 'this man' or 'that man'.

The Ten Commandments puts us all on an even playing field because in light of it, 'we are all' guilty of much evil.

I am not pretending that this is all simpler than it is. The reality we live in is not the reality that should be (on that I think all of us would agree) but which man can say what reality 'should be'??? I submit that only a 'perfect man' has that right. I think you all appreciate that implication and where I am leading with that thought.

These are not word games for me. Words are the most powerful things we possess and we should use them with a respect for their ability to send shock waves of ideas into the sea of mankind.

We need to stop propping ourselves up, by pointing fingers at people who are 'more corrupt' than we are. We are more than corrupt enough ourselves. Shall we judge what is 'righteous' by using evil as 'the standard'? At that rate are we not all very good people indeed compared to Adolf Hitler? Should we really prove our 'goodness' by comparing ourselves to other people? Wouldn't that be the definition of self-righteousness at its core?

I think the Devil Himself, that twisted multiheaded serpent, would like nothing more than to be the standard by which we judge ourselves as good.

Jesus is the standard. It is perfection that makes us all equal in the sense that we will recognize we need change (i.e. we are fallen). We like to see faults in others, but as soon as someone suggests that we are sinners ourselves, we recoil from that 'light' like cockraoches.

'As Malcolm Muggeridge astutely observed, it is the depravity of man that is at once the most unpopular of all dogmas and yet, the most empirically verifiable.' -Ravi Zacharius (RZIM.ORG)

Jesus showed the way through the maze. But there are a lot of traps along the way, so that those who don't know Him will fall into the pits and not get out alone. We should be sure that we have Him if we begin to use His name-which is truth, redeemer, and Righteousness. The man who speaks truth in vain becomes a puff of air. We can't create the truth (in the conceptual sense), because it created us and without it, we can speak nothing of substance and are left with inventing abstraction.

I have fallen into plenty of pits myself, but I didn't get out because I'm smarter or morally superior than everyone else. I got out because I had [just barely] enough humility to take His hand. What amazes me still, is that His hand was extended to me all along, and still is. That is good, because I continue to fall flat on my face when I forget that it is not about me.

I've been wrong many times because I myself have been corrupted by this world. It's when I am weak enough remember to 'turn around' (repent) that I am at my strongest but by His strength, not my own.

Hope it was on topic enough for Y'all, Rob

Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

Edited by Rob, : Clarity

Edited by Rob, : Spellcheck and clarification


Any biters in the stream?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Shh, posted 06-03-2006 5:24 PM Shh has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Damouse, posted 06-05-2006 4:51 PM Rob has not yet responded

    
Damouse
Member (Idle past 3015 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 109 of 110 (318020)
06-05-2006 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Rob
06-04-2006 11:01 AM


a post with a hint of... christian brainwashing?
So all the goos you do in your life Rob, all of it, is because you believe in a man who lived 2000 years ago and whose piety has been voted on? You do not have the morality to make the decisions for yourself, you must trust an entity that may not even be there? The Bible was written by men buddy, not by the divine hand of God. Atheists are painted as godless and immoral, and yet we can make the right decisions without the help of Jesus?! WHAT?!

My father equates "god morals" to the use of children's math problems. you give a simple question like 3+4 and instead of answering it, you draw out the apples and cross out three from the group of four. This is what you're doing.

What does it do, cleanse your consciousness? The Devil got me into this, but with the help of god i shall prevail? What an interesting situation! Why not I got myself into this, and I will get myself out! "You can take whatever you want, but you will always have to pay for it" is a splendid rule of thumb. A philosopher said that we created god because we were lonely. I see how this situation could have come about...

But alas, my post and the bottom 3/4 of yours is quite off-topic. Back to reality: I agree with you in that it is not the christians place or form to punish the sinners, as you say. You do , however say, that it is their goal, as it was jesus' to show us the truth, and not let us "wallow in abstractions". I disagree here. Every person who does something evil, ever non-insane malfactor KNOWS that they're commiting evil, for sure. Theres no questions of morals. You cannot say "he didn't know better!" in the defence of a rapist.

As to "Man" being the problem, thats all fine and dandy, but there are bigger fish to fry. You say not to point a finger, but it doesn't change the fact that the society that we call good juxtaposed by what we call evil is a lot better off then some. Entitys outside our collective "1st world countries" or even groups within merit the name "evil". Collectively, it would benefit everyone if they were gone, and that has nothing to do with our inner selves.

Just a little finisher, tying the beggining to the end.

Words are the most powerful things we possess and we should use them with a respect for their ability to send shock waves of ideas into the sea of mankind.
I disagree here completly. Words are meningless; history is molded by actions. Did jesus' preachings stop stoning, crucifixion, ect? On a wider scale, did it stop war? That is what you do up top. you talk. Talk is quite cheap, in a position of life and death talk and faith in god will does nothing; action saves lives.

Edited by Damouse, : sp


-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses
This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Rob, posted 06-04-2006 11:01 AM Rob has not yet responded

    
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2185
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 110 of 110 (353021)
09-29-2006 12:46 AM


Generalized Bump
The documentary Jesus Camp appears to be all over the news lately. Is this the Dominionist army in training?
    
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