Commonalities Of Accounts Of A Universal Flood?

This is a good idea for a thread and maybe we'll all learn something. All I really know is that there are quite a few, and others at EvC have supported this. I think I should just hit and run here as my computer has been freezing up more than usual today. So here is one site that looks pretty comprehensive:Flood Legends From Around the World

The universality of flood stories, were they all merely local events, should be matched by a universality of all kinds of disaster stories, it seems to me. Where are the universal earthquake stories, the universal forest fire stories? If the area is flood-prone, yearly subjected to flooding as the Nile area is, the people wouldn't single out just one event of flooding to make a big deal out of it -- or if there was an unusually big flood they'd still mention it in the context of the yearly pattern -- they lived by it after all.The fact that such stories exist in such numbers is very likely an indication of a universal memory. The fact that many of them are distorted and embellished with local gods just reflects the imperfection of memory and reason, plus a dollop of local pride.The Bible account is remarkable for its LACK of embellishment. In fact this is true of the entire Bible, which adds to its credibility in my mind. It's a straightforward account of facts and pertinent details. There's no fat on it, no fairy tale or myth or legend feeling at all. In my humble opinion of course.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Do such myths exist? Seems to me that regular seasonal floods would not likely be mythified into one huge worldwide flood disaster, as I say in Message 11, but one huge flood seems to be the pattern of the myths. Of course I haven't read through them all. That's an easy assumption people have, but I'm not sure it's warranted. I suspect it's a projection of our modern fantasies about primitive man rather than anything supported by evidence. On the contrary, the existence of so many of them is really good evidence for a universal human memory. Not having one doesn't mean much. Maybe they had one but it was lost in more recent events. Deterioration of memory is to be expected; it's the retention of such a dramatic idea in so many places that is unexpected. There really isn't such great diversity at all, the similarities are striking even through the local distortions. And as I say in #11, where are the universal earthquake disaster stories, fire disasters, on a par with the flood stories? Where have they said this? Can you give a quote? One would expect memory distortion in the idea of time too I would think.

According to the myth itself or modern interpreters? Do you have some evidence for this, a link, a reference? I tried to google it but don't want to risk checking too many links and so far none turned up this information.

Excellent support for my position, thank you. These are myths devised to explain the periodic recurrence of the phenomenon of earthquakes -- earthquakes, plural. In other words they are not about one huge worldwide earthquake. This demonstrates that primitive people know the difference between a recurring event and a worldwide one-time event. The flood stories, by contrast, do not describe periodic floods, recurrent floods, but a worldwide event that everyone here is trying to rationalize away in terms of their limitations of viewpoint. No, more like myths about the fecundity of the flooded land brought about by various gods, perhaps with a story about their supposed beginning, and a recognition of a particularly great flood that destroyed the area, but still not called worldwide. It certainly would. Actually, there is a different explanation for these differences. When Satan seduced Eve who talked Adam into disobedience, Satan became the prince of this planet, and his demons became the various "gods" and "goddesses" of the many tribes of humanity, usually blurred with their memory of the one true God, the idea of Whom became more and more remote as time went on under the helpful ministrations of their friendly local "deity." Well, your link to the myths about the origin of earthquakes is a case in point. Typical myths, imaginative rationalizations. I would certainly think so. That was basically my point. Periodic floods could not be the explanation for any worldwide flood myth found in such a region. They would know the difference.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Yes, human beings are myth-makers, but I meant are there myths from those areas that purport to be about a worldwide event?

The Bible is universal, it's "catholic," it speaks to the entire world. It consistently explains the human condition throughout the world. Nobody said "godless sinning trash." The fact is that the Fall explains most of the religious myths of humanity in terms of demon-inspired idolatries, and the reason all humanity needs a Savior. A myth by definition is not truth, though it may or may not contain some truth. The worldwide-flood myths simply contain so much similarity that they support the idea of a universal human memory of such an event. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You admit you didn't read the earthquake myths. They are NOT presented as global. Certainly no one global earthquake is in any of them. They are presented as recurrent natural phenomena. That was my whole point.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

It's the only source there is of an explanation for the tribal propitiation religions that have existed all over the planet. There is no other source of such information.

You haven't read the link to the earthquake myths, and you misread my post. Of course he was talking about godless myths. kuresu, enough conversation with you on this thread for now I think. Spend a little more time reading and thinking please.

None of the myths discussed, at least as far as I read, mentions a world-wide quake. If one or two do, so what, that would not parallel the similarities in the accounts of world-wide floods.The rest of what you said is not making any sense.I'm taking a break from this thread as it's deteriorating into nonsense.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Let me guess that a local flood that stretched from horizon to horizon AND completely covered up every last bit of visible land, dwellings, trees, the works, does NOT happen "readily." A flood from which salvation can only be in a boat of some sort. A flood which killed all but a very tiny number of people. These are some of the common elements in the flood stories that suggest kinship with the Noahic flood. OK, let's say they were parochial enough to assume that earthquakes shake the whole earth. Nevertheless, those earthquake myths are trying to explain a regularly occurring natural event; they are not reporting on a one-time natural event of such gigantic proportions as to kill nearly all of humanity, on a scale that would be preserved in a great number of myths of the world. The various flood myths are NOT trying to explain the phenomena of periodic local flooding, but all have in common this idea of a worldwide disaster that killed all but a very few.I'm not going to get back to the rest for a while.

OK, let me try to get this sorted out. The Noahic flood was a ONE TIME event that was worldwide and universally destructive. The earthquake myths may or may not assume worldwide effect, but that doesn't matter, although perhaps I put too much emphasis on that fact. What matters is that they do not pertain to ONE big earthquake that destroyed the entire earth and the vast majority of its inhabitants, which is the only thing that would parallel the flood story. There is no comparison with the flood story which is a one time worldwide event that wiped out most living things.My original point was that if you claim all the nonbiblical flood stories are merely local although they clearly describe a one time worldwide event from which few escaped, then we should also expect to find other local disasters expanded to worldwide one-time event proportions, since that is the theory about how the primitive mind works implicit in the flood story, and we do not find this: The earthquake myths are merely attempts to explain a periodically occurring natural event. The flood stories are NOT, they are clearly speaking of a ONE TIME FLOOD of worldwide proportions. They are NOT trying to explain why periodic floods happen.If you have flood stories described as one time worldwide disasters, although in reality, according to you all, they are really only local events the primitive mind exaggerates, then why aren't there other kinds of natural periodically occurring local disasters that are similiarly turned into one-time universal destructive events? A myth that tries to explain how periodic natural events are caused is not the same thing.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Apparently you addressed this post wrongly, intending it for me.I think my previous post answers it fine.I'd just add that there are MANY places on earth that DO experience periodic floods. I live in one of them, where we get a pretty major flood from snow melt about every ten years, but by no stretch would anyone have thought any such flood was anything more than local.I also really really really do not think that even the most primitive human being couldn't tell the difference between a serious one-time local flood and a flood that covered everything in sight, NOTHING visible but water, and required being on a boat to survive.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I don't get your point. What does this have to do with the widespread stories of a one-time flood that killed all living things? The fire myths and the earthquake myths are EXPLANATION stories, something else altogether. The flood stories are not explaining floods, they are accounts of a one-time world-destroying event. If there is anything we should note about similarities between myths with respect to the flood stories it's that they ALL agree that there was once a world-wide world-destroying flood.Besides we're off topic as AdminPD has pointed out. We are to be addressing the questions in the OP instead of forever arguing the validity of the flood stories.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.