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Author Topic:   Commonalities Of Accounts Of A Universal Flood?
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 40 of 92 (353792)
10-03-2006 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
10-02-2006 9:32 PM


Re: Confirmation Bias
quote:
It's the only source there is
Err what about the The Epic of Gilgamesh, produced by the Sumerians?
Sources of Gilgamesh predates any sources of Genesis. Fragments of the Gilgamesh flood story have been found on tablets that date beyond 2k B.C! The Epic of Gilgamesh is the oldest known work of literature.
Gilgamesh has many parallels to the Noah flood. Some like to claim that since the Gilgamesh story is cruder (not by much) it is obviously a "corrupted" copy. However one would expect earlier versions of a myth to be simpler and later copies to be more refined and complex as the result of cultural advancement.
Nice example of a meme!
As another example of meme replication, there are several parallel verses and key concepts of the Epic of Gilgamesh in the Greek epic poem of the Odyssey. More refined and complex!

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 Message 31 by Faith, posted 10-02-2006 9:32 PM Faith has not replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 48 of 92 (353922)
10-03-2006 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Faith
10-03-2006 12:57 PM


Flood Stories and Agrarian Existence
quote:
but by no stretch would anyone have thought any such flood was anything more than local.
But do you have your house built down on the flood plain? Do you have your entire existence including your family/friends living on the flood plain? Is your only source of living invested on the banks of the river such as your food stores and your planted crops?
The existence of flood stories abound because as early man transitioned from hunter gathers to agricultural he settled in floodplains where the rich arable soil existed. As someone else pointed out a 100 or 1000 or 10000 year record flood could have a devastating effect and even the potential of wiping out an entire civilization. Early man did not understand statistics, only that god must have been really mad.
This is also why there are Egyptian and Sumerian flood stories. BTW the sources of these flood stories predate the Genesis flood story, as I pointed out in an earlier post Message 40
Please note Admin warning before responding to this message and answer accordingly.
--AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 52 of 92 (353931)
10-03-2006 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Faith
10-03-2006 12:57 PM


Agriculture, written language and flood myths
OK due to friendly admin warnings lets keep this in the scientific realm - a good idea.
  • How widespread are stories of a universal flood?
    Fairly widespread as I understand, however I have not been able to find any statistics.
    Societies that have flood myths that are oral based are suspect. Oral based myths are very susceptible to recent modifications due to untraceable outside contacts. For example, the myths of new world natives could have been from earlier european contacts. A fine example of this is that the oral traditions of some of the native populations in my area record that they were created with the horse and the horse was always with them.
    The most reliable sources of this myth are written sources such as the Egyptian and Sumerian flood stories. The only societies that are stable and organized enough to have developed a written language are agricultural based societies. Agricultural based societies build in river valley's and river delta's. River valley's flooded somewhat predictably. But occasionally a record 100 or 1000 year flood happens and severely wipes out the population. The survivors get to write the myths.
  • What do they have in common besides a big flood?
    That god did it. Earlier man did not understand standard deviations and the normal distribution curve. Natural events had supernatural explanations.
  • Do they occur only in areas where local flooding is known to have taken place, or are they present elsewhere?
    Some have commented that desert dwelling Navaho or Hopi's had flood myths. But they were agrarian based societies and farmed the land. Not to mention their myths are oral based.

  • This message is a reply to:
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    iceage 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
    Posts: 1024
    From: Pacific Northwest
    Joined: 09-08-2003


    Message 67 of 92 (354551)
    10-05-2006 6:50 PM
    Reply to: Message 66 by Hyroglyphx
    10-05-2006 6:30 PM


    Flood stories and more Babel
    One interesting fact is that there may be common flood stories but no worldwide tower of babel stories.
    Hmmm I guess the question if there was a world wide flood is still out for debate, but I think we can safely say that if there was one it was not as decribed in Genesis. Without question you would also have tower of babel stories since the tower was a more recent event. Also this was the point when all the different civilizations bifurcated so this event would be prominent in the founding myth makers minds and the flood a distant memory.
    It is always good to narrow down the valid options in these sort of things.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 66 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-05-2006 6:30 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 69 by Chiroptera, posted 10-05-2006 7:05 PM iceage has not replied
     Message 70 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-05-2006 7:11 PM iceage has not replied

      
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