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Author Topic:   Faith's Participation in EvC
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 9 of 285 (354088)
10-04-2006 6:25 AM


You have to keep Faith here.
Her poor grasp of just about every subject she posts about is the best weapon an atheist has here at EvC!
I have to question Percy's decision to make her a mod though. Someone who is as disruptive as Faith, and by Percy's own admission she should probably be showcased, surely hasn't earned that privilege.
If you were to ban her it should have been done long ago.
Since she has been tolerated here for so long, and not only has her bad behaviour been largely ignored, you have rewarded her with an adminship!
Percy has essentially rewarded her for the behaviour he has condemned.
Her behaviour has also been rewarded by the leniency shown to her, so you really cannot blame her for thinking she has been doing nothing wrong since she joined.
I know it is just an Internet forum, but the rewarding of bad behaviour irritates me, there is far too much of it going on, while the honest, hardworker get's bugger all for doing what is expected all along.
Given the past decisions regarding Faith, I cannot see how a ban or showcasing can be justified.
Brian.

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Admin, posted 10-04-2006 11:02 AM Brian has replied
 Message 29 by arachnophilia, posted 10-04-2006 5:01 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 13 of 285 (354117)
10-04-2006 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by GDR
10-04-2006 10:27 AM


I think that Faith shows amazing amount of faith, courage and persistence in the way that the way she defends her position.
I think what Percy is getting at is he wants to have the Science topics discussed in a scientific manner, using scientific methodologies. I think that faith has difficulty understanding that she needs to support her 'scientific' claims with scientifically supported evidence. her claims need to be supported in the same way that any scientific claim is. To begin with the premise that the accuracy of an ancient book of faith is completely factual and then look at the evidence is contrary to the scientific method.
The way Faith defends her position in the science threads is not actually 'science', and is therefore incompatible with a science discussion.
There are those on the other side of the fence who totally reject the Bible and mock the Christian faith whenever possible. Why aren't they suspended?
I think that it is because, even though it would be seen as mocking, their arguments are supported in a scientific manner. For example, to say that the Flood is a myth and then give scientific evidence to support that may insult Christians, but the construction of the post is in line with the scientific approach.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by GDR, posted 10-04-2006 10:27 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by GDR, posted 10-04-2006 10:57 AM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 54 of 285 (354341)
10-05-2006 6:38 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by arachnophilia
10-04-2006 5:01 PM


moderation is not a privilege;
So, if it isn't a privilege, then why doesn't everyone start off as a Mod?
it's a punishment.
People volunteer for a punishment?
Why is Jar being punished,or Ned, or Schraff, or Omni, or WK etc?
they make people moderators so they are forced to understand the concerns of other moderators:
Do you mean they make some people mods for this reason?
running a well-behaved, civil, and constructuve debate board.
But, it hasn't made one iota of a difference to Faith's behaviour. She is still disruptive, uncivil, and desctructive. I think it was fairly obvious that she is to unstable to change into what was hoped for.
the best way to make someone grow up is to make them responsible for something.
That only works with a very small percentage of the population. if it is the best way then why isn't Ray a mod?
Anyway, that isn't how I see a mod's role. A mod should be fairly knowledgable about the forum that they moderate, they should be able to guide the discussion, and hlep out people with suggestions about how to improve OP's.
Do you think when Percy is recruiting a md he asks them to take the job because their behaviour is unacceptable or does he ask them to take the job because of their level-headedness and subject knowledge?
frankly, i do not envy the mods here.
Well, they are all volunteers, no one forced them to take the job. Apart from one Mod that is, and I'mnot going there again.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by arachnophilia, posted 10-04-2006 5:01 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by arachnophilia, posted 10-05-2006 3:56 PM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 55 of 285 (354343)
10-05-2006 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Admin
10-04-2006 11:02 AM


Faith got what she deserved when I made her an admin.
Doesn't really tie in with:
though I wish she were more active.
Which reminds me, our next moderator meeting will take up the issue of relatively inactive admins.
Good idea, the ratio of admins to poster is ridiculous, especially when, by my reckoning, there's 8 admins who have either stopped posting here altogether (including as a normal member), or post about once every two months.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Admin, posted 10-04-2006 11:02 AM Admin has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 56 of 285 (354344)
10-05-2006 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Admin
10-05-2006 4:34 AM


Re: Clarifying the Issue
The fundamental question is what to do about a very articulate and very high-volume participant who has a great deal of difficulty following the forum guidelines, specifically the rules concerning staying on topic and moving discussion forward.
Why not apply the scientific approach to the problem instead of allowing people's emotions to enter into it.
You have a problem, and you are looking for a solution.
Your vision is to make EvC a board that contains high quality debate between evolutionists and creationists.
To reach your goal you need participants that can provide well reasoned and knowlegable posts.
You have a poster who, in your opinion, "has a great deal of difficulty following the forum guidelines, specifically the rules concerning staying on topic and moving discussion forward."
Solution, remove the poster "who has a great deal of difficulty following the forum guidelines, specifically the rules concerning staying on topic and moving discussion forward."
The solution is simple, it may not be what everyone wants, but you know that you have to do something, you do know she is never going to be the type of poster that you wish her to be.
If you want to up the quality of debate at EvC, then perhaps people should earn the right to post here, maybe they should submit an e-mail to you outlining their qualifications and give an example of a piece of writing about a particular subject. You and the rest of the mods can decide if an applicant has the potential to be a positive contributer to EvC.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Admin, posted 10-05-2006 4:34 AM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by iano, posted 10-05-2006 8:27 AM Brian has replied
 Message 61 by Quetzal, posted 10-05-2006 9:09 AM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 60 of 285 (354356)
10-05-2006 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by iano
10-05-2006 8:27 AM


Re: Divide and conquer?
But you are making it more complicated than it needs to be.
The problem is a member dragging threads off-topic, inability to follow rules, and hindering topic progress.
The easy solution is to ban her completely.
All the micro macro stuff only clouds the issue.
Fatc is, faith demands an extraordinary amount of admin time, she has had more leeway than any evo has ever had, there have been many strategies attempted with her and nothing has worked.
Everything that people are suggesting here, the stricter moderation, the restrictions on posting have all been tried before, and there's no point in trying them again.
All I am saying is that Percy knows what type of member he wants here, he is prepared to guide and help people who are not quite grasping what debate and the supporting of arguments are, but there comes a time when he realises that some people will just never come close to the standards he is looking for and something has to be done.
What I have suggested is the simple solution. The waters do not need to be muddied by posting frequencies or POTM's.
What do you suggest Percy does with Faith? Restict her to the theology forums where she can verbally abuse people there?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by iano, posted 10-05-2006 8:27 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by iano, posted 10-05-2006 10:28 AM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 62 of 285 (354371)
10-05-2006 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Quetzal
10-05-2006 9:09 AM


Re: Elitism Sucks
This isn't what I wish to happen, this is what would need to happen if Percy really wanted to realise his goal when he went set decided to start this forum off.
Percy wanted to set up a top quality debate forum between evo's and creos. He primarily wanted this to be along the lines of scientific enquiry, but he quickly realised that creationists really do not understand the scientific method, you just need to look at the creos who have posted here to realise that they do not know how to support a scientific claim, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
I prefer having the oddballs around here, it makes th eplace more entertianing, in fact I even started off a thread asking restictions to be lowered because over moderation has all but killed off EvC forum.
I enjoyed my debates with Ray, I know he could be exasperating to many people but I admire his passion for the subjects I participated in with him. But even Ray has been chased away by over moderation.
The showcase forum is an abomination and should be scrapped immediately as it looks as if the Mods dictate who is a moron and who isn't
My suggestion is really to ask Percy what he expects on an Internet discussion board, if he wants high quality scientific debate then he isn't going to get it in the format we have now.
I am all for Faith staying as she has been allowed to participate here for to long to ban her.
If anyone is to be permanantly banned it should be put in effect as soon as possible after they register.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Quetzal, posted 10-05-2006 9:09 AM Quetzal has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 72 of 285 (354417)
10-05-2006 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Adminnemooseus
10-05-2006 2:55 AM


Re: The "Private Administration Forum" etc.
and Faith has done a pretty remarkable job of pulling it off.
Are you on drugs?
The whole reason why this has been brought up is exactly because she hasn't being doing a remarkable job.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-05-2006 2:55 AM Adminnemooseus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-06-2006 10:34 PM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 198 of 285 (354811)
10-06-2006 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Faith
10-06-2006 2:19 PM


Re: One thing that may help
Hi Faith.
I am going to be serious for a minute.
Why do you spread yourself so thinly around the forum?
Don't you think it would be more productive for you if you stuck to just a couple of forums.
Personally, I stick to what I know, the faith based forums, and I very seldom go anywhere near science. This isn't because I am totally ignorant of the subject, it is just that I don't feel qualified to argue on the science threads. I have been known to ask a question or two just for clarification, but there is no point in me discussing evolution for example because I am not familiar enough with the material.
I think you should stick to the faith forums, you wouldn't have so many posts to answer and wouldn't feel ganged up on.
Just a suggestion.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 10-06-2006 2:19 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 10-06-2006 2:59 PM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 199 of 285 (354812)
10-06-2006 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by iano
10-06-2006 2:21 PM


Thats nearly 11% of the total.
And it's 99.9% of the nonsensical posts!
Tell you what. If your axed I'll retire in sympathy.
Me too.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by iano, posted 10-06-2006 2:21 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by iano, posted 10-06-2006 2:34 PM Brian has not replied

  
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