Does immunity disprove the fall?

Faith writes: Actually the immune system is in fine form and growing stronger. These "recent diseases" (by which I assume you mean acquired - or secondary - immunodeficiencies) provide an excellent example of evolution in action. Since the only way that viruses can reproduce is by infecting a cell, they must be able to evolve faster than the host's cells. The HIV virus has evolved to a point where it mutates extremely rapidly and thereby has a devastating impact on the host. However the genetic mutation CCR5-delta 32 provides strong resistance to the HIV virus (along with smallpox and the plague).CCR5 - WikipediaWhat started out as a single genetic mutation is now present in up to 20% of the European population and to a lesser degree in other populations, due to the selective pressures of viruses in the past. The more that we are exposed to them, the higher the frequency of that particular mutation and its protection.Kakariki

Gasby writes: If this is so then these 'parasites and pathogens' ate what and (in particular viruses) reproduced how? Did anything die before the fall? If not, then in the case of bacteria A&E may have had some strong competition for space in the garden. What do you mean by this? That A&E were given immunity because of the fall, to protect them? Or that they evolved immunity? If the fall was a punishment then this seems a bit strange to endow them with such an amazing defence mechanism. Regardless, it's certainly doing a great job at keeping up with the supposed 'deterioration'.Kakariki

Hi Gasby, thanks for your response. That's how viruses reproduce, yes. If there are viruses in your body and not causing you any harm, my understanding is that will be because your immune system is keeping it supressed. I can't find any evidence regarding a symbiotic relationship between humans and viruses. Between bacteria and human, yes, for example the bacteria that lives in our stomachs are very helpful with digestion. But the majority of encounters between humans and pathogens stimulate an immune response. A&E must have had immune systems. And there are quite a number that are harmful. If you agree that there were pathogens in the garden, then those types that have an adverse effect would have been there too. Are you equating your God with "an evil king who enjoys watching people suffer"?? I really can't enter into this "punishment" theory, i find it perverse.Life does involve some suffering and this gives us perspective, we wouldn't know what happiness was without it. Sunday roasts every night would get a bit tedious. Sanitation certainly helps to prevent contact with pathogens, but it doesn't help our immune systems. Exposure to them does, and my point being that if disease results from the fall, then our immune systems are keeping up just fine. If it weren't then we wouldn't have survived through all the epidemics and pandemics since then.Kakariki