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Author Topic:   One Or Two Gospels In The New Testament?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 3 of 32 (356271)
10-13-2006 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Terral
10-13-2006 8:12 AM


Dispensationalism
Hello, Terrel. Welcome to EvC. From the information that you provided in your post, it sounds as if you have been taught Dispensationalism. I also was taught this doctorine, and I will say that the logic behind it is sound if the Bible is an inerrent and literal work.
Personally, I question my beliefs, and am unafraid to challenge the concept of Biblical Inerrency. For the purposes of this thread and of your discussion, however, lets assume that the Bible as translated is thought for thought innerrent (as opposed to word for word inerrent)
In a sense, this topic can serve as a roundtable discussion among believers who have concluded that the Bible, although compiled and written by man, has been inspired by the Holy Spirit of God for the purpose of directing and intervening in human affairs so as to perfect and establish the Bride which will one day meet and unite with God through Jesus Christ.
(In other topics here at EvC, we question the purpose of the Bible, the accuracy of its authorship, and the need to take it literally...but will not do so in this topic)
Terral writes:
Do these ”two gospel messages’ truly exist in our New Testament, or is there only ”one gospel?’
If I am on the same page with you, I think that you are referring to the Dispensationalist theology that differentiates the Mystery Gospel from the Kingdom Gospel. Am I right?
If so, lets start this topic by informing the readers why such a theology was proposed. OK so far?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Terral, posted 10-13-2006 8:12 AM Terral has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Terral, posted 10-13-2006 11:30 AM Phat has replied
 Message 24 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-22-2006 11:19 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 5 of 32 (356310)
10-13-2006 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Terral
10-13-2006 11:30 AM


Re: Gospel #2 Is Our Gospel For Today
Do you consider yourself an online teacher? If so, you need to adapt your strategy to each board that you visit. The majority of the members at EvC Forum are not Biblical Literalists, so you won't get very far through scriptural quotes alone.
Terral writes:
Paul’s ”dispensation of God’s grace’ is still active in the world today, while the kingdom ”bride’ was ”cut off’ (Rev. 20:4) with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD.
Stam writes:
Progressive Dispensationalists would propose that the Bible is an unfolding revelation of Gods will to humanity. They have argued that truth is horizontal, not vertical, i.e., that it runs on through the ages unchanged and unchangeable. Truth is horizontal, but the revelation of truth is vertical, i.e., God has revealed truth to man, not all at once, but a little at a time, historically. Noah knew more of God's revelation than Adam, Abraham than Noah, Moses than Abraham, the twelve than Moses, Paul than the twelve.
The dispensationalist doctorine (I was with a mid-acts group) made sense to me if the Bible was actually Gods progressive revelation to humanity. The problem that I always had with the Dispensationalists was that they made the very doctorine of dispensationalism into a belief unto itself. Additionally, I was taught that the Bride was cut off when Israel was concluded in unbelief. (They being given a chance by God)
Edited by Phat, : fixed quotes
Edited by Phat, : thought I fixed it..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Terral, posted 10-13-2006 11:30 AM Terral has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Terral, posted 10-13-2006 1:22 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 26 of 32 (358121)
10-22-2006 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Hyroglyphx
10-22-2006 11:27 AM


Re: 2 gospels?
nemesis writes:
There is not two gospels, there is only one presented by Jesus through His disciples. I don't know how much more humble Paul could have been or how much harder he could have worked at doing everything to point towards Jesus.
But Paul had a different mission. Thats why he got knocked off his high horse to begin with.
Kingdom Gospel:
1. It will be set up on earth: (Psa. 2:8). (Isa. 11:9). (Jer. 23:5). (Isa. 42:4).
The kingdom which John the Baptist, our Lord and the twelve proclaimed "at hand" was indeed "the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 3:1,2, 4:17, 10:5-7), but it was to be set up on earth. Now, while its establishment is held in abeyance, it is vested in Christ Himself in heaven (Col. 1:13), but the goal of prophecy is the establishment of the kingdom on earth (Rom. 11:25-29).
2. It will be a theocracy. God Himself will reign, in the person of Christ: "They shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" (Isa. 7:14, Matt. 1:23). "And His name shall be called . . . The mighty God" (Isa. 9:6). "The Lord shall be king over all the earth" (Zech. 14:9). "The King, the Lord of hosts" (Zech. 14:16).
3. It will be centered at Jerusalem, Israel's capital city: "Out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem" (Isa. 2:3). "The Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem" (Isa. 24:23). "At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord" (Jer. 3:17). Thus He will reign primarily over Israel (Mic. 5:2).
This was confirmed by the angel Gabriel (Luke 1:32,33), by the Magi (Matt. 2:1,2) and by the Lord Himself (Matt. 19:28).
4. It will extend to all the earth: "Yea, all kings shall fall down before Him: all nations shall serve Him" (Psa. 72:11). "And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve Him" (Dan. 7:14). "Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord" (Zech. 8:22).
5. All Israel will then be saved: "They shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them" (Jer. 31:34). "I will save them . . . and will cleanse them: so shall they be My people, and I will be their God" (Ezek. 37:23).
This was confirmed by Paul in Romans 11:26, etc.
6. Israel's suffering and sorrow will then be over: "Speak ye comfortably [comfortingly] to Jerusalem. . . . that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned" (Isa, 40:2). "Give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness" (Isa. 61:3). "They shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away" (Isa. 35:10).
7. Israel will then become a blessing to all nations: "And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising" (Isa. 60:3). "And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing" (Zech. 8:13). "In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech. 8:23).
These promises date back to the covenant which God made with Abraham: "I will multiply thy seed . . . and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed" (Gen. 22:17,18).
8. Government will be purified: "With righteousness shall He judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth" (Isa. 11:4). "As the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations" (Isa. 61:11). "A King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer. 23:5).
9. War and bloodshed will be abolished.3"His name shall be called . . . The Prince of Peace" (Isa. 9:6). "And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more" (Isa. 2:4).
10. Health and long life will be restored to the human race: "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing" (Isa. 35:5,6). "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed" (Isa. 65:20).4
Mystery Gospel (to the Gentiles):
1. Israel set aside, temporarily, along with the Gentiles: "Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for" (Rom. 11:7). "The fall of them" (Rom. 11:12). "The casting away of them" (Rom. 11: 15). "Because of unbelief they were broken off" (Rom. 11:20). "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief" (Rom. 11:32).
2. Mercy shown to all alike: "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief THAT HE MIGHT HAVE MERCY UPON ALL (Rom. 11:32). "For there is NO DIFFERENCE between the Jew and the Greek: for THE SAME LORD OVER ALL is RICH UNTO ALL THAT CALL UPON HIM. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Rom. 10:12,13). "For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus" (I Tim. 2:5).
3. The gospel of the grace of God, through Christ's finished work, proclaimed: Hence Paul's claims concerning "the ministry which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify THE GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD" and "THE DISPENSATION OF THE GRACE OF GOD which is given me to you-ward" (Acts 20:24, Eph. 3:2).
4. Believers reconciled to God by the cross: "God was in Christ, RECONCILING the world unto Himself" (II Cor. 5:19). "That He might RECONCILE both [Jews and Gentiles] unto God . . . BY THE CROSS" (Eph. 2:16). "When we were enemies, we were RECONCILED to God BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON" (Rom. 5:10). "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies . . . yet now hath He RECONCILED in the body of His flesh THROUGH DEATH" (Col. 1:21,22).
5. Jewish and Gentile believers thus baptized into one body: "That He might reconcile both unto God in ONE BODY by the cross" (Eph. 2:16). "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs [joint heirs], and of THE SAME BODY [of a joint body], and partakers [joint partakers] of His promise in Christ by the gospel" (Eph. 3:6). "There is ONE BODY" (Eph. 4:4). "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into ONE BODY, whether we be Jews or Gentiles" (I Cor. 12:13). "Now ye are THE BODY OF CHRIST, and members in particular" (I Cor. 12:27). "So we, being many, are ONE BODY in Christ, and every one members one of another" (Rom. 12:5). "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek . . . for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:27,28).
6. This body of believers given a position in Christ in the heavenlies: "And [God] hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:6). "[God] hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ" (Eph. 1:3). "For our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven" (Phil. 3:20). "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above . . . for your life is hid with Christ in God" (Col. 3:1-3).
Edited by Phat, : added mumbo jumbo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-22-2006 11:27 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-22-2006 12:18 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 32 of 32 (358222)
10-22-2006 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Hyroglyphx
10-22-2006 12:18 PM


Re: 2 gospels?
nemesis writes:
How are these different? Its the same message coming from the same source. Are you suggesting that Paul's epistles are not from God?
While I dont believe that every word Paul said is inspired by God, I do believe that Pauls essential message was from God to the Gentiles. This could only happen after Israel rejected the Messiah and concluded in unbelief. "Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for" (Rom. 11:7). "The fall of them" (Rom. 11:12). "The casting away of them" (Rom. 11: 15). "Because of unbelief they were broken off" (Rom. 11:20). "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief" (Rom. 11:32). Most of the Gospels were addressed to Israel. Dispensationalist belief says that while all of the Bible is written for us, only some of the Bible is written TO us. (Us meaning Gentiles)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-22-2006 12:18 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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