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Author Topic:   Hovind busted, finally
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 136 of 308 (358016)
10-21-2006 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by subbie
10-21-2006 5:57 PM


subbie writes:

I'm absolutely certain Hovind doesn't know more about law than I do.

So Subbie, you think you're apprised enough on tax law to do what Hovind's been doing for decades and remain free doing it as long as he has? I don't know. I'm asking.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by subbie, posted 10-21-2006 5:57 PM subbie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by jar, posted 10-21-2006 6:49 PM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 138 by subbie, posted 10-21-2006 6:52 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 140 by Modulous, posted 10-21-2006 7:42 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 32683
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 137 of 308 (358020)
10-21-2006 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Buzsaw
10-21-2006 6:42 PM


So Subbie, you think you're apprised enough on tax law to do what Hovind's been doing for decades and remain free doing it as long as he has?

So cheating is okay if you don't get caught?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Buzsaw, posted 10-21-2006 6:42 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Buzsaw, posted 10-21-2006 11:41 PM jar has responded

subbie
Member (Idle past 300 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 138 of 308 (358022)
10-21-2006 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Buzsaw
10-21-2006 6:42 PM


Being able to evade prosecution for a while says absolutely nothing about his knowledge of law, tax or otherwise.

I can only base my assessment of Hovind's knowledge of the law on the statements he has purportedly made. If you have better information than has been posted in this thread, that information might cause me to reconsider my position. However, assuming he has actually said the things attributed to him in this thread, I can say without fear of error that I know considerably more about law than Hovind does.


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Buzsaw, posted 10-21-2006 6:42 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

nwr
Member
Posts: 5612
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 139 of 308 (358024)
10-21-2006 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Buzsaw
10-21-2006 5:51 PM


I evade tax.

You can go to jail for that.

You likely evade tax and so does every wise

I certainly don't evade tax.

I think you are a little confused here. There is an important difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion.

Tax avoidance is a matter of organizing your affairs so as to reduce the amount of tax you are required to pay. Many people do that, and it is quite legal. Tax evasion is failing to pay the taxes for which you are legally liable. That is not legal, and even violates the teachings of Jesus ("render unto Caesar ...").


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Buzsaw, posted 10-21-2006 5:51 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Buzsaw, posted 10-21-2006 11:49 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

Modulous
Member (Idle past 660 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 140 of 308 (358032)
10-21-2006 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Buzsaw
10-21-2006 6:42 PM


you think you're apprised enough on tax law to do what Hovind's been doing for decades and remain free doing it as long as he has?

I can't answer for Subbie, but Hovind doesn't need to know jack about tax law when he afford to pay someone to think for him. As you can see - Hovind's basic defence has been tried recently...by the man that has represented him.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Buzsaw, posted 10-21-2006 6:42 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

anglagard
Member
Posts: 2227
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 141 of 308 (358046)
10-21-2006 11:22 PM


Riding to Hovind's Defense
Here are some choice links to Hovind defenders courtesy of Panda's Thumb:

http://yecheadquarters.org/catalog2.0.html4.0.html

http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/1053

It appears the saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend is gospel to some.


Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 142 of 308 (358047)
10-21-2006 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by jar
10-21-2006 6:49 PM


jar writes:

So cheating is okay if you don't get caught?

As usual, Jar, you either spin or miss my point, being that if he got by for decades he likely was not breaking the law. Otherwise the law would've likely busted him long ago.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by jar, posted 10-21-2006 6:49 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by jar, posted 10-21-2006 11:46 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 144 by DrJones*, posted 10-21-2006 11:47 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 146 by subbie, posted 10-21-2006 11:51 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 32683
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 143 of 308 (358048)
10-21-2006 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Buzsaw
10-21-2006 11:41 PM


Buzsaw writes:

As usual, Jar, you either spin or miss my point, being that if he got by for decades he likely was not breaking the law. Otherwise the law would've likely busted him long ago.

Just so the audience does not think I am spinning your comments, I will just let that quote of yours stand.

LOL


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Buzsaw, posted 10-21-2006 11:41 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2109
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 144 of 308 (358049)
10-21-2006 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Buzsaw
10-21-2006 11:41 PM


being that if he got by for decades he likely was not breaking the law. Otherwise the law would've likely busted him long ago.

So if I murder someone and no one ever catches me, does that mean I didn't do it? Do you think the justice system is infallible?

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Buzsaw, posted 10-21-2006 11:41 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 308 (358050)
10-21-2006 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by nwr
10-21-2006 7:09 PM


You make sense there, NWR. Ok I avoid paying any taxes legally when I can and maybe, I say maybe, that's what he was doing. I'm just going by how long it's taken him to get to trial. I know there's a lot of Americans who've done this over the years and somehow gotten by via manipulation of the laws. It's complicated I guess and you gotta know what your doing so I don't try this at home.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by nwr, posted 10-21-2006 7:09 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

subbie
Member (Idle past 300 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 146 of 308 (358051)
10-21-2006 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Buzsaw
10-21-2006 11:41 PM


You really ought not make such sweeping statements in a field where you know nothing.

It can take years, even decades sometimes, to make a tax case against someone, for a variety of reasons. Not to mention the fact that generally federal prosecutors are a very conservative bunch. They don't bring a case until they are certain they can get a conviction. Finally, take into account that, as things go, this sort of nut isn't that high on their priority list. There are dangerous people they need to catch quickly. There are also some people that are more likely to disappear.

You are of course free to assume he's innocent as long as you want. But don't pretend that there's any reason to suppose he's innocent.


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Buzsaw, posted 10-21-2006 11:41 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16111
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 147 of 308 (358062)
10-22-2006 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Buzsaw
10-21-2006 5:51 PM


1. I evade tax.

I sincerely hope you do not. Legal methods of avoiding tax are called "tax avoidance". Tax evasion is, by definition, using illegal methods to get out of paying taxes.

The EvC peanut gallery can speculate on all kinds of pharasaical accusations and judgements ...

It was not, I think, a Pharisee who gave the judgement: "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's".

but in the end the courts will decide which it is with Hovind.

They will. Would you care to wager on the outcome?

2. I'm quite sure Hovind knows more law than anyone of his accusers here, having used it all these years.

Kent Hovind's knowledge of the law has got him on trial for over fifty charges of fraud. My knowledge of the law, though not perfect, seems to have kept me out of such scrapes.

Kent Hovind's supposed knowledge of the law has also led him to conclude that he is not, in law, a person; that dollars are not, in law, money; and that the States of the Union are not, in law, part of the United States.

I know you're a creationist, but surely even you can see something wrong with this.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Buzsaw, posted 10-21-2006 5:51 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

PaulK
Member
Posts: 16338
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 148 of 308 (358143)
10-22-2006 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Buzsaw
10-21-2006 5:51 PM


quote:

I'm quite sure Hovind knows more law than anyone of his accusers here, having used it all these years

If that's true then why did he try to defend himself by arguing that he didn't know that he was breaking the law ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Buzsaw, posted 10-21-2006 5:51 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16111
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 149 of 308 (358546)
10-24-2006 2:20 PM


Aww ...
Hovind trial delayed again

Aww ...

Mind you, if I was representing the Hovinds, I'd be ill.


Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by jar, posted 10-24-2006 2:51 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 32683
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 150 of 308 (358550)
10-24-2006 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Dr Adequate
10-24-2006 2:20 PM


why not RICO
I still don't know why he is not being treated as a Criminal Enterprise under the RICO statutes.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-24-2006 2:20 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-24-2006 10:09 PM jar has not yet responded

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