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Author Topic:   The consequences of an intelligent designer
subbie
Member (Idle past 1276 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 1 of 53 (358510)
10-24-2006 10:47 AM


Probably the most basic way to evaluate the merits of a particular hypothesis is to determine how well it explains observable facts compared to competing theories. However, it seems to me that it is also valid to examine whether a given theory raises more, or more difficult, questions than it answers.
With this second idea in mind, I'd be interested in an exploration of the corollary issues raised as a consequence of an intelligent designer playing some role in the development of life. I don't necessarily wish to limit this discussion to the Intelligent Designer (god) that the creos believe in, but it can include the red herring idea that they've tossed out of an alien intelligence, or any other type of designer that anyone else would find of interest, for that matter.
The first two questions that come to my mind along these lines are, why would any intelligence direct, tamper with or otherwise influence the course of life on this insignificant third rock from an ordinary star, and if it's so intelligent, why didn't it do a better job of it?
I guess this might go in Misc Topics, but to the extent that the discussion takes us in the direction of divining the motives of a supreme being, I can easily see there being substantial overlap into more faith related areas. And, I can also see that large portions of this discussion will be based more on reasoning and logic than evidence, so I would ask that the requirement of evidence to support positions be somewhat relaxed.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Replies to this message:
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 Message 15 by iceage, posted 10-26-2006 2:10 AM subbie has not replied
 Message 40 by mick, posted 10-27-2006 7:26 AM subbie has not replied
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1276 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 7 of 53 (358821)
10-25-2006 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by 42
10-25-2006 3:17 PM


An example.
All right, here's a real world example from the history of science.
In 1915, based on a number of observations, Alfred Wegener proposed the theory of contintental drift, that the continents were at one time together but over time, drifted apart. Although the theory explained quite well a very large number of curious observations that nobody had been able to adequately explain up to that point, his theory was roundly rejected. Based on what was known at the time, this rejection was reasonable. It was known that the contintents were composed of much lighter material than the crust, and part of Wegener's theory proposed that the continents somehow plowed through the crust. Because it seemed impossible for the continents to move through the crust, the theory was rejected. It raised more difficulties than it answered.
Now, the difficulties raised by the concept of an intelligent designer will obviously vary depending on exactly how much influence one posits the designer exerted. As you suggest, if one posits a loving, all powerful god as the designer, one has to explain the tremendous suffering that we see. Moreover, if one supposes that the designer directed evolution throughout the process, one must explain we there are so very many examples of poor design evidence throughout nature. Why, for example, would an all knowing, all powerful god fail to give pandas thumbs so they could grasp their food?

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by 42, posted 10-25-2006 3:17 PM 42 has replied

Replies to this message:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1276 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 14 of 53 (358922)
10-26-2006 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Dr Adequate
10-25-2006 10:17 PM


Constraints of the designer
Now by by postulating an intelligent designer, the design theorists should be able to work out, at least broadly, what these constraints were, and I assume that this is a hot topic of research in the ID community ......
oh, wait ...
... I mean, I would bet dollars to donuts that none of them has ever written a single word about this topic.
Yer kiddin' right?
The ID community worked that out years and years ago. You never heard that god is omnipotent?

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-25-2006 10:17 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1276 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 47 of 53 (359282)
10-27-2006 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by mick
10-27-2006 8:06 AM


Re: And...
I guess each species will also come with irreducably complex assembly instructions
In several different languages, perhaps including Klingonese and Vulcan.
I'm also pleased to observe that batteries are included.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by mick, posted 10-27-2006 8:06 AM mick has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1276 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 53 of 53 (363373)
11-12-2006 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Archer Opteryx
11-12-2006 7:33 AM


Wow, that's the first time anyone has ever called me a poet. I'm flattered.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-12-2006 7:33 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
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