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Author Topic:   George Bush leads us into the world of Kafka.
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 86 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 136 of 150 (351662)
09-23-2006 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
09-15-2006 1:55 PM


crap on a stick
I had a guy from Jordan over for a BBQ once, and he made something called kafka (I think). Looked like a sausage on a stick, smelled like shit on a stick. Stunk up the whole dam house.
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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6633
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 137 of 150 (351669)
09-23-2006 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Quetzal
09-23-2006 11:51 AM


Re: Going It Alone
quote:
Yep - talk is cheap. If they were that upset, why didn't/don't they do anything more than whine? I guess it's kind of fun to beat up on the US, while at the same time conveniently forgetting about their own lack of action.

Let's not forget that the Europeans also benefit from the current global economic situation. Their very high material standards of living are due to the exploitive nature of post-colonial "globalization", which is maintained, in part, by US military and foreign policy.


"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw
This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Quetzal, posted 09-23-2006 11:51 AM Quetzal has not yet responded

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 4039 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 138 of 150 (351709)
09-23-2006 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by riVeRraT
09-23-2006 7:19 PM


Re: crap on a stick
Sounds like the same stuff Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler sells in Ankh-Morporkh. "Named meat" on a stick. :D
This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by riVeRraT, posted 09-23-2006 7:19 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 3173 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 139 of 150 (351887)
09-24-2006 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Quetzal
09-23-2006 11:51 AM


Re: Going It Alone
quote:
Yep - talk is cheap. If they were that upset, why didn't/don't they do anything more than whine? I guess it's kind of fun to beat up on the US, while at the same time conveniently forgetting about their own lack of action.

it's a bit like watching a car accident happen on television. You can scream 'stop, don't do it!' all you like but there's fuck all you can do to prevent it from happening.

That's what you'd expect the people at the scene to try to do.


"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
This message is a reply to:
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Quetzal
Member (Idle past 4039 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 140 of 150 (351897)
09-24-2006 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Legend
09-24-2006 6:59 PM


Re: Going It Alone
it's a bit like watching a car accident happen on television. You can scream 'stop, don't do it!' all you like but there's fuck all you can do to prevent it from happening.

That's what you'd expect the people at the scene to try to do.

Heh. Watching this administration over the last six years IS just like watching a car accident happening. Bush currently has the lowest approval rating of any president in recent memory. OTOH, we did vote him in again last go-around. I think there's something fundamentally flawed with the system. However, if you'd care to re-read the exchange between holmes and myself, you'll see the thrust of the comment you referenced is that there were sufficient European nations opposed to the invasion of Iraq - adamantly, I might add - they didn't do anything to halt it either, using those diplomatic and economic pressures they could have brought to bear. In essence, then, neither of us have any room to talk.


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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 141 of 150 (357762)
10-20-2006 1:58 PM


Jar.

You're entire life has been within the village in "The Castle".

I am 3/4ths through the book, and after finishing a chapter dealing with the father of Olga attempting to get forgiveness for Amalia - to fix his family, have realized the truth about all of our existences within this nation, and within this continent, within this earth of humans that not only exploit but imprison us. We don't even see it. Well none of you do, do you?

hahaha

Can't you see that you are inside of the village?

You can't excape it. Everyone here is inside of it. Haha, it's so absurd that it's hilarious. It's hysterical. We have no freedom, hahahahahhahaha, hahhahahahhahaha.

We are the village sir. We cannot be free. It is all over. Can't you see it??

hahahahahahahahaq

It's done. There is no freedom, we are over sir. We are over...........................................................

Edited by AdminJar, : take out some stupid periods.


Replies to this message:
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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 142 of 150 (359161)
10-26-2006 8:35 PM


Is it worth having a system, as our society is and functions than to have supposed anarchy?

There would not be anarchy. If a group of people had a common and relative understanding about what is good and right, then their would be not be anarchy. There would be education, and working for food, and survival, there would be freedom, but there would also be restriction based upon one's love for the others in the society, and one's committment to making life wonderful for all of those within that society.

We would not be limited by rules and regulations for others to exploit, and gain from it. We would not have to fear a "government" of workings which we do not know.

When we are born, and old enough to understand, we would be taught that society is for a just, and beautiful cause. That the work, and the sacrifice is a necessity for the ones that we care about, and for nothing else.

There wouldn't be corruption. There would be righteousness, and books. There would be music, and art. There would be the best things, there would be science. But would there be technology? And is it a bad thing if there weren't? If there weren't space shuttles, and cars, computers and televisions. Would we as humans be worse off? I answer with a resounding NO. We would be fine. We would transcend. We would know that we exist. We would know that a God exists. We would know that we must strive to learn, and strive for what is true. We would know to be like God.


Replies to this message:
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 Message 146 by nator, posted 10-26-2006 9:05 PM joshua221 has responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1458 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 143 of 150 (359166)
10-26-2006 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by joshua221
10-20-2006 1:58 PM


Aren't you a little young to be on drugs?

Uncalled for. Take a 24 hour break. AdminJar

Edited by AdminJar, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 1458 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 144 of 150 (359168)
10-26-2006 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by joshua221
10-26-2006 8:35 PM


prophex writes:

There wouldn't be corruption. There would be righteousness, and books. There would be music, and art. There would be the best things, there would be science. But would there be technology? And is it a bad thing if there weren't? If there weren't space shuttles, and cars, computers and televisions. Would we as humans be worse off? I answer with a resounding NO. We would be fine. We would transcend. We would know that we exist. We would know that a God exists. We would know that we must strive to learn, and strive for what is true. We would know to be like God.


Yeah, and we'd be burning witches and putting intellectuals under house arrest like the good old times when everyone was either god-fearing or roasted.
This message is a reply to:
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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 145 of 150 (359172)
10-26-2006 9:03 PM


lol
  
nator
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 146 of 150 (359173)
10-26-2006 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by joshua221
10-26-2006 8:35 PM


quote:
There would not be anarchy. If a group of people had a common and relative understanding about what is good and right, then their would be not be anarchy. There would be education, and working for food, and survival, there would be freedom, but there would also be restriction based upon one's love for the others in the society, and one's committment to making life wonderful for all of those within that society.

What if everyone agreed that it was "good and right" that girls shouldn't be educated because their place was in the home making babies?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by joshua221, posted 10-26-2006 8:35 PM joshua221 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by MangyTiger, posted 10-26-2006 9:28 PM nator has not yet responded
 Message 148 by joshua221, posted 10-26-2006 10:17 PM nator has responded

    
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 4520 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 147 of 150 (359176)
10-26-2006 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by nator
10-26-2006 9:05 PM


What if everyone agreed that it was "good and right" that girls shouldn't be educated because their place was in the home making babies?

And cooking. And cleaning. Oh and don't forget the laundry...

The scariest thing is that in the last couple of years I've seen interviews on TV over here with groups who actually do advocate this. Mostly they were Christian groups in the US, although there were a couple of Islamic groups as well.


Oops! Wrong Planet
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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 148 of 150 (359182)
10-26-2006 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by nator
10-26-2006 9:05 PM


What if everyone agreed that it was "good and right" that girls shouldn't be educated because their place was in the home making babies?

Everyone would not come to such a decision. You forget that within a society such as this, there are no motives which are for power. Why would a person living in such a community want to control, would they not realize that this is a society filled with those whom you strive to serve.

A torturous device as the one described has no place in a society of educated individuals who see freedom as a precious asset.

An easy approach to my argument of an ideal society, would be to say that humans would want power, and material. That humans are corrupt creatures, capable of the greatest evils. Within a community such as this, where those who live struggle for the benefit of the entire community, where their lives are dedicated to the society, not just themselves, there would be no atrocities as described.

You say it is idealism, but it is apparent that if humans were together in such a system, they would realize that to harm another is only to harm oneself. Values would be instilled in them from not only education, but from the way their society actually functions. It would be the best reminder to do right.

Circumstances would arise where an individual would steal, or even worse. The individual would have to be taught the workings of their system. It would have to be apparent that an individual who understands would do no such things.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 149 of 150 (359321)
10-27-2006 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by MangyTiger
10-26-2006 9:28 PM


The scariest thing is that in the last couple of years I've seen interviews on TV over here with groups who actually do advocate this. Mostly they were Christian groups in the US, although there were a couple of Islamic groups as well.

scary

scary

scary

scary

scary


This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by MangyTiger, posted 10-26-2006 9:28 PM MangyTiger has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 150 of 150 (359369)
10-27-2006 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by joshua221
10-26-2006 10:17 PM


What if everyone agreed that it was "good and right" that girls shouldn't be educated because their place was in the home making babies?

quote:
Everyone would not come to such a decision.

This is how things used to be. Why couldn't they be that way again?

quote:
You forget that within a society such as this, there are no motives which are for power.

To be human is to to want at least some kind of power; power over one's own body at the very least.

quote:
Why would a person living in such a community want to control, would they not realize that this is a society filled with those whom you strive to serve.

Who says that educating females would make their ability to serve others better? Wouldn't it just get in the way of serving their children and their men?

quote:
A torturous device as the one described has no place in a society of educated individuals who see freedom as a precious asset.

"Individuals" who "all think the same way"?

I'm not sure that makes sense.

quote:
An easy approach to my argument of an ideal society, would be to say that humans would want power, and material. That humans are corrupt creatures, capable of the greatest evils. Within a community such as this, where those who live struggle for the benefit of the entire community, where their lives are dedicated to the society, not just themselves, there would be no atrocities as described.

Hitler was dedicated to his society.

"Dedication to one's society" means that the individual isn't important anymore.

You can't have everyone agreeing about what is good and right and also maintain individualism.

quote:
You say it is idealism, but it is apparent that if humans were together in such a system, they would realize that to harm another is only to harm oneself. Values would be instilled in them from not only education, but from the way their society actually functions. It would be the best reminder to do right.

...and individual identity would die.

What you are describing is a kind of "benevolent fascism".

quote:
Circumstances would arise where an individual would steal, or even worse. The individual would have to be taught the workings of their system. It would have to be apparent that an individual who understands would do no such things.

But what if he is hungry and needs food to survive?


This message is a reply to:
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