Is it Rape or Not

Its easy to call my position ridiculous when you change it to one that is ridiculous. Whoa, slow down, buddy. When did I start defending that type of god? Does the Bible describe God as that?Also, I've already typed about saying 'well, if god was really omni-X then he'd do this.'So, I'm not doing any backbending. No, I don't. And like I've already typed, God could have just made everything in any way in an instant. But he did not. Things happened the way they did. It seems to be that way, doesn't it?Does this make god bad or non-existant? I don't think so. How can we honestly judge his motives? That's the way he did it, we can't argue that he could've done it another way, or that he should've done it another way if he really was omni-something because we just don't know. Belief, or disbelief, in god comes before this judgement, not as a result of it. I don't know if he does or not, or if the Bible says he does or not (off the top of my head).

I'd say the Bible describes about 20 different gods, but yes, the God of Abraham is described as a God of justice for whom any sort of moral failing is abhorrent. I couldn't say. But what it does do is make it pretty obvious that the Bible is really nothing more than the history of a civilization that, like all the rest, had to figure it out as they went along instead of getting it all on a plate from On High.A legal framework for the rape of captives is an outrage by our modern standards but an act of mercy by theirs. That's not consistent with the edicts of a God of eternal justice and unwavering moral certitude. But it is consistent with an entirely evolutionary (if you will) history of human legal progress.

How does that become 'infinite mercy and justice'? Well, honestly, I agree with you there but I don't see that it is neccessary that it didn't come from god, or that it is obvious that it is nothing more than godless history. /nod Why not? It could very well be consistent with that God, just that he chose a more evolutionary path at getting to where we are, rather than just poofing into existance already good and perfect, you know, kinda like the way he created life, in general. Well, you are right there. I just don't think it rules out god. Maybe to maintain parsimony, but, who cares about that

you don't have a very good idea of what rape means.rape means any form of sexual violation, including if you decide you want to have sex, but you're not ready and the man decides not to wait for you to get lubricated enough for it to be comfortable or even enjoyable when you ask. this is rape as well and it is just as traumatic. it is when one partner takes advantage of another partner no matter what the degree.it doesn't matter why the women were treated that way. the fact that god's law does not create full rights and protections for women in it's original form demonstrates that it is flawed. god is perfect, his law is supposed to be as well. you claim god's law is perfect. his commands here demonstrate it is not.

animals sometimes punish each other for trying to usurp breeding rights.

"Justice delayed is justice denied", as they say. If rape of captives - slavery in general - is a moral outrage as we understand it now, and if God's morality is timeless, then it should have been a moral outrage then, too. I mean, it had only been a few centuries since God hand-delivered the Ten Commandments, and those hardly have a lot of wiggle room - nor are they waved away by believers as "depending on context" or the like.It seems to me that God is entirely comfortable delivering moral absolutes regardless of the times, and expecting them to be followed regardless of current fashions. It's inconsistent that, in this case, that's not what happened. I'm not saying it does. But it certainly rules out, to my mind, a certain kind of micromanaging God for whom two men having TEH BUTTSECKS is a red-alert violation of the cosmic order. (I'm not saying that's your God, but it's definately some people's.)

Yea, but is that because they want to be king of the hill, or because God, or society told them it was wrong. I would think that it is not a moral decision, but more of an animalistic one.

What makes you think God's morality is timeless?This, as well as the contrast between the NT and OT, and that the 10 commandments were handed down at some point in time, certainly suggest that God's morality is NOT timeless. Really!?I'd say the latest laws/rules tump the earlier ones. But we need to get over this timeless morality thing first. Is that somewhere in the Bible?

absolutely. something like this part of the old testament saying that it's okay to commit mass murder and mass rape to protect israel's world sovereignty.sounds like king of the hill to me. in fact, they're still fighting to be kings of the temple mount...

if god does not change, his morality should not change. he says he does not change.

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They can be used to help us determine god's nature. But, the data is as revealed to an ancient culture. We can't apply them directly to modern culture to demean god's nature

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Genocide is still genocide and rape is still rape and "marrying" a captive - who has seen most of her relativees butchered - and then throwing her out with nothing if she isn't satisfactory is still vile. Is it demeaning God to say that God openly condoned these actions ?

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lso, I don't think we can say that becaues god has some omni- ability, then he must use it.

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If God chooses to do less than he is capable of then He is responsible for doing so. It is generally accepted that it is wrong to let others come to harm through negligence or from failing to take actions that are easily within our power.It is agreed that we are morally responsible for the forseeable consequences of our actions. If we refuse to adequately consider what will result from what we do then we are still responsible for those consequences. Willful blindness does not absolve anyone of responsiblity.

Whether she wants it or not. I've taken this to heart, Faith, and adopted you. You are now my daughter. The paperwork's done. No, no, I know this is a shock to you, but it's for the best really. Instead of being out on your own, you will enjoy the legal and cultural protection my family has to offer in addition to quality healthcare, a roof over your head, plenty of food to eat. And, oh yeah, we don't worship that silly Jesus man in my family. We worship Gaybortia. This may be evidence of the oldest "but look what she was wearing" defense known to man. And since there's nothing wrong with killing as long as God commands it, what would be wrong with this, exactly? I mean, from your point of view. True, if the Bible said this instead, I'd be pointing at it and saying how cruel God is, but that's hardly a problem for me. Are you actually saying God was being merciful? My mind is put at ease. Forced marriage against a woman's will is a totally moral activity, nonabusive, and prevents rape. Someone get me Jennifer Connelly's agent. I've got a deal to make.

Please provide your definition of Rape. That should be elucidating.

Sorry Faith,I just saw this reply and have a reply in thought but no time to type it. I'll get back to the forums tomarrow.

thats putting a limit on God's abilities.