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Author Topic:   Your eternal destination: you decide.
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 76 of 246 (360650)
11-02-2006 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Archer Opteryx
11-02-2006 12:11 AM


Re: YEC = KFC
Subbie might as well have asked me "When is red?"
How does one go about answering non-questions? The question posed in the OP is not a non-question either for the athiest (for God can exist) or the person who thinks. believes, hopes that Allah or one of the other gods exists. They must both face the fact that God of the Bible can be a reality. They can consider the question in the light of that reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-02-2006 12:11 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-02-2006 5:54 AM iano has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 77 of 246 (360653)
11-02-2006 5:54 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by iano
11-02-2006 5:41 AM


Re: YEC = KFC
[The OP] might as well have asked [us] "When is red?
How does one go about answering non-questions? The question posed [by Subbie] is not a non-question either for the athiest (for [Allah] can exist) or the person who thinks. believes, hopes that [the Trinity] or one of the other gods exists. They must both face the fact that God of the [Koran] can be a reality. They can consider the question in the light of that reality.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 5:41 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 6:14 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 78 of 246 (360654)
11-02-2006 5:58 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Faith
11-01-2006 5:23 PM


Re: To be fair to Iano...
Or if he were real clever he'd give me 72 virgin females to cope with.
They don't realize it, but when they get to heaven, there will be 72 virginians (not virgins) there waiting to kick their asses.
Once again the lines between God and religion are blurred by people in this thread. Who ever thinks heaven will be filled with religious people, is probably mistaken, at least that's what the bible says.
I can see from some responses that people are visioning heaven as hell, then choosing hell, because they feel it is better. But it is not about choosing once you die. Now is the time to choose, through every decision you make in life.
jar writes:
Don't know
I can't help but feel this is not the answer jar wants to give, but the answer he feels he should give.
Whats the matter jar, your not forgiven? How can you not know, you don't remember everything you have done in your life? Well neither does Jesus. We are not perfect, and that's ok. Just as long as you are not knowingly evil, I would think, and hope that most of us here will be in heaven.
My answer is heaven, and not by my own doing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Faith, posted 11-01-2006 5:23 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by jar, posted 11-02-2006 10:23 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 79 of 246 (360657)
11-02-2006 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Archer Opteryx
11-02-2006 5:54 AM


Re: YEC = KFC
[The OP] might as well have asked [us] "When is red?
How does one go about answering non-questions? The question posed [by Subbie] is not a non-question either for the athiest (for [Allah] can exist) or the person who thinks. believes, hopes that [the Trinity] or one of the other gods exists. They must both face the fact that God of the [Koran] can be a reality. They can consider the question in the light of that reality.
You got a little mixed up there Archer. The "When is red?" bit doen't fit in this context. The OP is a valid question.
I don't happen to fit into the category of Subbies question. I know God exists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-02-2006 5:54 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-02-2006 6:24 AM iano has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 80 of 246 (360661)
11-02-2006 6:24 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by iano
11-02-2006 6:14 AM


Re: YEC = KFC
The "When is red?" bit doen't fit in this context. The OP is a valid question.
I don't happen to fit into the category of Subbies question. I know God exists.
Of course you do. Just like the Muslim knows Allah exists.
It's an equivalent question.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 6:14 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 6:47 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 81 of 246 (360663)
11-02-2006 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by iano
11-02-2006 5:23 AM


If one person calls you a jackass, you may freely ignore that opinion. If many people call you a jackass, you better check for long ears and a tail.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 5:23 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 6:39 AM subbie has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 82 of 246 (360665)
11-02-2006 6:39 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by subbie
11-02-2006 6:27 AM


If one person calls you a jackass, you may freely ignore that opinion. If many people call you a jackass, you better check for long ears and a tail.
I've seen a lot of people tripping up over themselves: you with your mea culpa, Iceage with his RC offshoot-transmuted-into-rebuttal. Even the normally tight Archer can't string a satirical paraphrase together coherantly
Jackass, heal thyself...
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by subbie, posted 11-02-2006 6:27 AM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by subbie, posted 11-02-2006 6:57 AM iano has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 83 of 246 (360670)
11-02-2006 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Archer Opteryx
11-02-2006 6:24 AM


Re: YEC = KFC
Read back: "a person believing, thinking, hoping God/Allah/Krisna exists" is not a person knowing.
For example: I believe/think/hope the sun will rise tomorrow. I don't know that it will. If someone were to ask me what would I do were it not to I could answer them.
The person who knows Allah exists can't answer the OP - it equivilent in its being a non-question for them as it is for me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-02-2006 6:24 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by subbie, posted 11-02-2006 7:10 AM iano has not replied
 Message 89 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-02-2006 7:32 AM iano has not replied
 Message 209 by nator, posted 11-06-2006 2:48 PM iano has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 84 of 246 (360673)
11-02-2006 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by iano
11-02-2006 6:39 AM


Jackass, heal thyself....
Well, let's see...
So far in this thread, you are the only person who has suggested that there's anything wrong with my paraphrasing of your question. That's one.
At least four people have said that your response is non-responsive; Archer, Iceage, tudwell and me.
I think a quick trip to a mirror is in order for you.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 6:39 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 7:07 AM subbie has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 85 of 246 (360678)
11-02-2006 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by subbie
11-02-2006 6:57 AM


Re: Jackass, heal thyself....
I see Archer has made at least some attempt to debate the issue. He hasn't been reading things very clearly though.
Neither you nor Iceage have attmpted debate - just assertion. So you two don't count (for all huffing and puffing)
Tudwell? All he said was this:
Many atheists don't concede that God, as described in the Christian Bible, can exist, just as you don't concede that God as described in the Koran can exist.
I asked him to name one atheist who doesn't concede that God of the Bible can exist and on what basis they do this . He never said. He doesn't mention anything about my being non-reponsive. So he shouldn't be counted in your armies of the disenfranchised.
This is a debate forum Subbie - not a popularity contest. Debate if you like. Spare me the hand wringing...
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by subbie, posted 11-02-2006 6:57 AM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by AdminPhat, posted 11-02-2006 7:11 AM iano has not replied
 Message 88 by subbie, posted 11-02-2006 7:14 AM iano has not replied
 Message 140 by tudwell, posted 11-02-2006 6:00 PM iano has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 86 of 246 (360680)
11-02-2006 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by iano
11-02-2006 6:47 AM


Re: YEC = KFC
The person who knows Allah exists can't answer the OP - it equivilent in its being a non-question for them as it is for me.
Hmmmmmmm.....
You claim that you know god exists and, therefore, allah cannot exist. But here you allow for the possibility that someone else can know allah exists. Clearly two people cannot know two contradictory things.
Believe it or not, I think this is a sign of progress!

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 6:47 AM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-02-2006 3:08 PM subbie has not replied

  
AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 246 (360681)
11-02-2006 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by iano
11-02-2006 7:07 AM


Re: Jackass, heal thyself....
Ian, lets focus on the eternal destination rather than the personalities one encounters along the way!
WWJD? (In other words, lets steer back towards topic)
Edited by AdminPhat, : add

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 7:07 AM iano has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 88 of 246 (360682)
11-02-2006 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by iano
11-02-2006 7:07 AM


Re: Jackass, heal thyself....
Whoops! You seem to have missed message 35 above:
tudwell writes:
If that's so, then why shouldn't Iano have to answer subbie's question:
If I'm wringing my hands, it's only in delight, watching you twist about.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 7:07 AM iano has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 89 of 246 (360685)
11-02-2006 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by iano
11-02-2006 6:47 AM


Re: YEC = KFC
iano:
Read back: "a person believing, thinking, hoping God/Allah/Krisna exists" is not a person knowing.
For example: I believe/think/hope the sun will rise tomorrow. I don't know that it will. If someone were to ask me what would I do were it not to I could answer them.
The person who knows Allah exists can't answer the OP - it equivilent in its being a non-question for them as it is for me.
Donkey doo. Nothing stops a person from answering a hypothetical question regardless of what they know.
One answers for the sake of argument. One answers hypothetically. One uses, in short, one's imagination.
If one has any.
I know the color red exists. That doesn't cause me to scramble for cover if someone asks how I might feel if it didn't. Nothing stops me from considering the idea and rummaging around in my being somewhere and framing an answer. And maybe I'll have some fun in the process.
Your knowledge is clearly made of more fragile stuff. It doesn't say much for a person's confidence when they will not allow a question they ask of others to be entertained by themselves even hypothetically.
People who know they stand on solid ground behave differently. They don't shrink from sticking their toes in the kiddie pool for fear that they'll drown. If they feel like sticking their toes in the water and swishing them around a bit, they do. They can.
But I'm satisfied you won't answer. And truthfully, Iano, if your beliefs are that fragile I wouldn't want you to try. I would hate to be responsible for you losing your faith and undergoing an existential crisis and plunging yourself into a long dark night of the soul.
By all means, protect what you have to protect. Keep those wagons circled. Give the world that stiffarm.
Don't worry about your squeamish posts here. We'll just toss them into the old KFC bucket and call it a day.
___
Edited by Archer Opterix, : HTML.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Typo.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 6:47 AM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by subbie, posted 11-02-2006 7:48 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 11:18 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 90 of 246 (360686)
11-02-2006 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by iano
11-01-2006 10:40 AM


iano
Even the most rabid athiest will accept that God of the Bible could inf fact exist.They would also accept that Heaven and Hell of the Bible could in fact exist (for simplicities sake: Heaven is bliss, Hell ain't)
Actually this is not necessarily the case. If we allow for magic to occur in defiance of laws of the physical world and postulate the existence of a realm wherein these laws are manipulated then we could allow for such possibility. This, however, is assuming much that is uneccessary to explain the world and also does not really answer the questions we have except by handwaving them away.
I have not heard persuasive arguements that have held up under scrutiny and questioning as far as the bible is concerned. So I will go on record as stating that I do not accept that such could exist.
This being the case there is no God to send me anyhwere and the point becomes moot. Living forever , which seems to be a fervent wish of many who profess to believe,whether in heaven or hell, is something quite anethema to myself for reasons I have argued elsewhere at this site.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by iano, posted 11-01-2006 10:40 AM iano has not replied

  
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