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Author Topic:   Your eternal destination: you decide.
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 106 of 246 (360808)
11-02-2006 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Codegate
11-02-2006 11:49 AM


Re: This is scary stuff...
God says it it so and God is unconditionally correct.
That is true. God is unconditionally correct. He IS God.
I wonder how long before the next Christian Osama makes an appearance.
Well there hasn't been one in 2000 years, so I doubt one will be coming along in the near future either.
Oh the Antichrist will be along though, a selfdescribed Christian who opposes everything of Christ. Versions of the antichrist have shown up many times. Hitler was one. The next big one should outdo him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Codegate, posted 11-02-2006 11:49 AM Codegate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by RickJB, posted 11-02-2006 1:07 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 107 of 246 (360809)
11-02-2006 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Codegate
11-02-2006 11:49 AM


Re: This is scary stuff...
All it takes is a very persuasive charimatic individual to move you from this unconditional belief to do whatever they want of you. Just look at what Manson did. Hitler. Osama.
Read the New Testament for what a genuine folower of Christ must be. Manson, Hitler and Osama are followers of the evil one.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by nwr, posted 11-02-2006 3:01 PM Faith has replied
 Message 117 by RickJB, posted 11-02-2006 3:42 PM Faith has replied

  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 108 of 246 (360824)
11-02-2006 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Faith
11-02-2006 12:36 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
Faith writes:
Well there hasn't been one in 2000 years, so I doubt one will be coming along in the near future either.
This is a joke, right? There were scads of them in the Northern Ireland alone!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 12:36 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 2:54 PM RickJB has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 246 (360831)
11-02-2006 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by iano
11-02-2006 12:12 PM


quote:
Not even Richard Dawkins goes so far as to exclude the possibility of Gods existance.
I don't speak for Dawkins, and he does not speak for me.
-
quote:
Cannot exist? Or pretty damn convinced he does not exist?
The Christian Bible, taken as literal history or literal cosmology, is nonsense. The deity described cannot exist.

Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus

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 Message 103 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 12:12 PM iano has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 110 of 246 (360833)
11-02-2006 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Faith
11-02-2006 11:18 AM


Re: YEC = KFC
Faith:
There is no fooling around with hypotheticals about what if He didn't exist or didn't this or didn't that. The question hits one as a bizarre impossibility. It is an exercise in futility, a waste of time. There is nothing whatever to be gained by it, except entertaining the unbelievers, and sometimes we'll indulge in that, as I did when I answered the question about Allah, and I answered truthfully. But it's really just a mind game to no purpose. Allah does not exist and this is the number one truth to be stated, which is what Iano did. There is no shakiness of faith here whatever, quite the opposite. It's more like a feeling of amazed incredulity that anyone would pose such a hypothetical, something so illogical and irrational it is at first hard to get into the gameplaying mindset.
Please forgive the raising of questions that make you feel so serene and unshaken.
Keep fighting the good fight against those irrational Middle Eastern religious beliefs... you atheist you.
___
Edited by Archer Opterix, : Brev.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 11:18 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 2:55 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 111 of 246 (360835)
11-02-2006 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by iano
11-02-2006 5:34 AM


Re: Ways of knowing
iano writes:
iceage writes:
And you know he exists because, if I remember, you "suspended disbelief."
You've a poor memory
Iano please refer to Message 4 Did I misquote you?
iano writes:
The rest of your post is plain rubbish.
You had the arrogance of discounting the faith of over a billion people because you “know” your god exists. Now that is rubbish.
iano writes:
An atheist cannot know God doesn't exist. Whereas I can know he does. And if I do then I can know all sorts of things as a consequence of that amongst which, Allah doesn't exist.
And you are so cocksure of this because of some feeling.... Which reminds me of quote:
Bertrand Russell writes:
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 5:34 AM iano has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 112 of 246 (360845)
11-02-2006 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by RickJB
11-02-2006 1:07 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
This is a joke, right? There were scads of them in the Northern Ireland alone!!
Message 107

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by RickJB, posted 11-02-2006 1:07 PM RickJB has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 113 of 246 (360847)
11-02-2006 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Archer Opteryx
11-02-2006 1:43 PM


Re: YEC = KFC
?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-02-2006 1:43 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-02-2006 6:33 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 143 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-02-2006 6:36 PM Faith has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 114 of 246 (360851)
11-02-2006 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Faith
11-02-2006 12:39 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
Manson, Hitler and Osama are followers of the evil one.
How can you be sure that you, and other creationists, are not followers of the evil one?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 12:39 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 3:18 PM nwr has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 115 of 246 (360855)
11-02-2006 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by subbie
11-02-2006 7:10 AM


progress & paradox
iano:
The person who knows Allah exists can't answer the OP - it equivilent in its being a non-question for them as it is for me.
subbie:
You claim that you know god exists and, therefore, allah cannot exist. But here you allow for the possibility that someone else can know allah exists. Clearly two people cannot know two contradictory things.
Believe it or not, I think this is a sign of progress!
I noticed that, too, subbie. I agree.
iano, I don't think I've ever seen you use the word 'knowledge' before to describe an idea someone cherishes that you do not share.
If you're inclined to back off that wording or rationalize it, please don't. Just let the paradox hang for a while.
No harm done, living with a paradox here and there. None at all.
___
Edited by Archer Opterix, : HTML.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by subbie, posted 11-02-2006 7:10 AM subbie has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 116 of 246 (360857)
11-02-2006 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by nwr
11-02-2006 3:01 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
How can you be sure that you, and other creationists, are not followers of the evil one?
I guess you aren't sure, right?
Well, how am I sure? I just am. Faith I guess. The Holy Spirit I guess. Understanding the scripture I guess. Nothing I could prove to anyone apparently.
The thing that most amazes me about the general discussion at EvC between Biblical creationists and everybody else, is the evil that is imputed to us and to God. That in itself fits with what scripture says to expect, but it is still astonishing nevertheless. Well, the Romans accused the Christians of atheism and other evils. The Pharisees accused Jesus of blasphemy and casting out demons by Beelzebub. It's all there, just as scripture says. I guess it's my own puny faith that it keeps astonishing me when I encounter it over and over.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by nwr, posted 11-02-2006 3:01 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by nwr, posted 11-02-2006 3:46 PM Faith has replied
 Message 123 by iceage, posted 11-02-2006 4:16 PM Faith has replied

  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 117 of 246 (360860)
11-02-2006 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Faith
11-02-2006 12:39 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
Faith writes:
Read the New Testament for what a genuine folower of Christ must be. Manson, Hitler and Osama are followers of the evil one.
So Osama is no more a "true" Muslim than an IRA terrorist is a "true" Christian.
Why is there one rule of definition for Christians who commit evil and another for Muslims?
Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 12:39 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 4:13 PM RickJB has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 118 of 246 (360861)
11-02-2006 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Faith
11-02-2006 3:18 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
The thing that most amazes me about the general discussion at EvC between Biblical creationists and everybody else, is the evil that is imputed to us and to God.
Then you are misreading.
I don't say anybody imputing evil to you or to God. Rather, I see people pointing out that your own beliefs impute evil to God.
I'm not sure why you cannot see that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 3:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 4:15 PM nwr has replied

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 119 of 246 (360864)
11-02-2006 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by iano
11-02-2006 5:23 AM


In post 73, Iano asserts: "An atheist must admit that God can exist." But this is a radical shift from the proposition of his opening post, "Even the most rabid athiest will accept that God of the Bible could inf fact exist." (bold and italics mine, misspellings his.)
I can assert that in fact the god of the bible cannot possibly exist. In fact, I cannot even force myself to accept, even for hypothetical purposes, the possibility of the god of the bible existing. How is it possible for this to be impossible? There are two possible ways: 1) The assertion is so totally in conflict with readily known facts and common sense that the mind cannot even contemplate it; 2) the assertion fails even rudimentary logical tests. The 'god of the bible' assertion fails even the most rudimentary test of logic: self consistency. I cannot no matter how hard I try, accept even as a possibility that there is a Chevy Corvette that is simultaneously made out of steel and not made out of steel, or an apple that is completely red and completely blue at the same time, or that the moon is closer to the earth than the sun and that it is further from the earth than the sun, or that (fill in the blank). The god of the bible is logically inconsistent and self contradictory. He is ever changing and he is never changing. He is cruel and vindictive and he is loving and merciful. He is incapable of error and he apologizes for his errors. Etc., etc., etc. Apologists try to explain away some of these obvious contradictions by the dialectic device known as hucksterism, but the only device that really works is self delusion.
So Iano's assertion that an atheist cannot deny the possibility of the existence of the 'god of the bible' (GOB) is completely false.
Something else worth noting, particularly by Iano and Faith: Allah is the god of the bible. Also, Islamists do believe in Jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 5:23 AM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 4:32 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 120 of 246 (360865)
11-02-2006 4:00 PM


Where I am going....
All that I know is that I'm not God. My destination is completely up to Him. If His Word is true, then He has forgiven a wretch like me... an inconceivable concept after some honest introspection.

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5

  
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