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Author Topic:   Your eternal destination: you decide.
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 12 of 246 (360452)
11-01-2006 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by AnswersInGenitals
11-01-2006 11:43 AM


Re: Only atheists go to heaven.
AiG writes:
One thing that modern science has taught us is that if there is a god, he is an amazingly cleaver and inventive individual. The specters of galaxies, cosmic nebulas, elementary particle interactions, and life on earth as we know it leave us in awe.
Contrast with
Even the most rabid athiest will accept that God of the Bible can well exist. They would also accept that Heaven and Hell of the Bible can exist (for simplicities sake: Heaven is bliss, Hell ain't)
I would say in view of the facts that God is as described in the Bible as zero.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 13 of 246 (360453)
11-01-2006 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by AnswersInGenitals
11-01-2006 11:43 AM


Re: Only atheists go to heaven.
duplicate post
Edited by AdminPhat, : duplicate post

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 14 of 246 (360454)
11-01-2006 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by AnswersInGenitals
11-01-2006 11:43 AM


Re: Only atheists go to heaven.
Edited by AdminPhat, : triple post deleted

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 20 of 246 (360467)
11-01-2006 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by iano
11-01-2006 10:40 AM


Salvation Meme
Sorry for the duplicate post folks.
Even the most rabid athiest will accept that God of the Bible can well exist. They would also accept that Heaven and Hell of the Bible can exist (for simplicities sake: Heaven is bliss, Hell ain't)
Iano. The Catholics believe that there no salvation outside the church (ummm that is their church).
It would be shame if you came so close only to sit right next CK swelting in the heat. Have you considered to cover you bet and join the Catholic church?
If you believe the things you believe then it is not too far a stretch to accept that the Catholic church may be right in their view.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 56 of 246 (360570)
11-01-2006 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by iano
11-01-2006 2:13 PM


Re: Salvation Meme
If you believe the things you believe then it is not too far a stretch to accept that the Catholic church may be right in their view.
Too far a stretch? You've got to be kidding me
It would be a far shorter trip for you to be come a Catholic than would be for me to believe in your bronze age concept of a god.
Really quite tragic that you are risking damnation for such a small philosophical adjustment? BTW your sidestep was noted...

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 70 of 246 (360618)
11-02-2006 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by iano
11-01-2006 8:09 PM


Re: Salvation Meme
how ripe
Yes something is ripe. When asked to consider the same question you posed to others you started mumbling something about - lightyears and ripe cheese.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 71 of 246 (360622)
11-02-2006 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by iano
11-01-2006 7:22 PM


Ways of knowing
Whereas I can know he (God) does.
And you know he exists because, if I remember, you "suspended disbelief."
I have heard of people on the proper dosage of psychoactive drugs were induced to “suspended disbelief” in their inability to fly. They re-established a connection with reality at the end of the fall.
Furthermore there are people is state hospitals that know they are Jesus. Is this the same kind of knowing?
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 111 of 246 (360835)
11-02-2006 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by iano
11-02-2006 5:34 AM


Re: Ways of knowing
iano writes:
iceage writes:
And you know he exists because, if I remember, you "suspended disbelief."
You've a poor memory
Iano please refer to Message 4 Did I misquote you?
iano writes:
The rest of your post is plain rubbish.
You had the arrogance of discounting the faith of over a billion people because you “know” your god exists. Now that is rubbish.
iano writes:
An atheist cannot know God doesn't exist. Whereas I can know he does. And if I do then I can know all sorts of things as a consequence of that amongst which, Allah doesn't exist.
And you are so cocksure of this because of some feeling.... Which reminds me of quote:
Bertrand Russell writes:
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 123 of 246 (360870)
11-02-2006 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Faith
11-02-2006 3:18 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
The thing that most amazes me about the general discussion at EvC between Biblical creationists and everybody else, is the evil that is imputed to us and to God. That in itself fits with what scripture says to expect, but it is still astonishing nevertheless.
Hey, don't feel special, the extremist fundamental by-the-book Muslims are "persecuted" also.
The Pharisees accused Jesus of blasphemy and casting out demons by Beelzebub.
I don't see you casting any demons out so I don't think there are any parallels here. I think you are undeservingly elevating your position.
The Pharisees attacked Jesus because he would not stone the women as the "scriptures" required. No offence Faith but if you were there and raised with a strict Jewish background, which side would you be on with your cocksure worldview. Myself? I am not sure.....
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 136 of 246 (360888)
11-02-2006 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Faith
11-02-2006 4:26 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
As I get it, they are doing the persecuting, killing Christians daily around the world as a matter of fact, and Jews as well, when they can get to them with their strapped-on bombs. And Hindus as well.
Believe me there are plenty of Muslim that feel persecuted.
To make this more relevent how about the ultra-fundamentalist of the “God Hates Fags” troupe
Fred Phelps - Wikipedia
Or Hovind and his legal problems ...
or the White Purity - Christian Identity. They just believe in the white race and do not condone violence. They are persecuted for their beliefs. David Koresh felt persecuted as did Jim Jones. So relish in the persecution you are in some good company. Persecution is not some indicator that your faith is right on.
They're still working on killing more "Christian" Americans too.
I don't suppose it would be of any use to review history of the crusades or inquisitions lead by people absolutely sure in the position with God would be of any use. Aslo the violent mulsims use the same arguements you use about the absolute purity of the book and scriptures written centuries ago.
The Pharisees attacked Jesus because He claimed to be God.
And Jesus attacked them for their 'rightness' in beliefs.
BTW you didn't answer the question. I ask again...
iceage writes:
The Pharisees attacked Jesus because he would not stone the women as the "scriptures" required. No offence Faith but if you were there and raised with a strict Jewish background, which side would you be on with your cocksure worldview. Myself? I am not sure.....
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 164 of 246 (361140)
11-03-2006 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
11-03-2006 12:28 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
as Islam cannot tolerate any other religion
Just like Christianity at one time did not tolerate any other religion or any other sect.
Currently they are prone to a very literal reading of the scripture and they are merely acting on their convictions.
Islam is a younger religion give them a few centuries to mature. They need their Thomas Jefferson.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 193 of 246 (361779)
11-05-2006 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Archer Opteryx
11-05-2006 2:57 AM


Excellent
Very excellent piece Archer! I wish this forum supported some form of elevating a post like yours above the noise. Bravo....
our ideas uncertain
There are some around here that are certainly cocksure about their ideas. In this very topic I posted something way down below to the OP that I thought was fitting by Bertrand Russell
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 202 of 246 (362151)
11-06-2006 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by riVeRraT
11-06-2006 9:35 AM


Re: Still no evidence of KNOW
Other people see and hear from God, but it is not neccessary for me to verify it with them. Everyone can look at a cloud and see a different picture within, that doesn't mean that the cloud does not exist.
The different images they see are subjective and have no bearing in reality. They will all agree that the cloud is white and puffy and the wind is blowing in a certain direction - the important parameters.
Verification is in your heart, since God created it. The testing lies in your journey with Him.
The heart pumps blood not much else going on there. Point is the term "heart" is implicit in misunderstanding. The ancients actually believed the heart was the source of feelings.
All your confirmation of your faith from experience and feelings is no less or more valid than a pious Muslim’s experience and feelings. Their strength in their faith is just as strong as yours with the same degree of "confirmation".
There is statistical proof that "feelings" and experience are a poor guide to truth and understanding. There is a dominate and overwhelming correlation that the prevailing religious faith is predicated on the prevailing culture. Very very few people go counter to the surrounding culture either way. The ones that do are the interesting ones.
Also interesting is that Jesus went counter to the prevailing culture. I have little doubt that the strict biblical believers of today would be ones stoning the adulterous women or calling for crucifixion.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

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