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Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Your eternal destination: you decide. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Something else worth noting, particularly by Iano and Faith: Allah is the god of the bible. Also, Islamists do believe in Jesus. Allah is not the name of the God of the Bible, who gave His name Himself as YHWH. At best Allah has some possible connection with El, the generic term for "God," but that doesn't equate him with the self-revelation of God Himself by Himself that is only in the Bible. Islamists do NOT "believe in" Jesus. To do that means believing that He is God, and that He died to pay for our sins, both of which they quite aggressively deny. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I know what I said in Message 107 and your response makes no sense.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What I claim to be my beliefs based on the Bible I ascribe also to many thousands of others I recognize as my brothers and sisters in Christ. I am in no way claiming some unique understanding of scripture, let alone omniscience.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes. But you only listen to those who agree with you, and those are the only ones you consider brothers and sisters in Christ. So it comes to the same thing. I suppose we are now on an off-topic slide with diminishing returns so let's end it soon, but associating myself only with those who take the word of God as authoritative is merely being consistent, hardly implies we attribute omniscience to ourselves, only that we share an understanding of the revelation of God. "Only "listen to?" What does that mean? I RECOGNIZE them. I RECOGNIZE that we share a common understanding that makes us members of the Bible-believing Christian fraternity. When I listen to others, and I do, I RECOGNIZE that I do NOT share a common understanding with them.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes, I suppose if I'd been raised as a Pharisee, and God had not granted me the grace to recognize who Jesus was, then I'd have believed as the Pharisees believed. What does it accomplish to state this? The same is true if I'd been raised as a Muslim or a Hindu or whatever. What's the point?
God DID grant the grace to MANY of the Jews in Jesus' time, as He has granted it to me, now an ex-atheist, to know that Jesus was the long-promised Messiah, the Son of God, God incarnate. God also grants that grace to Muslims and Hindus and atheists and etc. Jesus upbraided the Pharisees for their man-derived traditions which they had put in the place of God's Law, not for any "rightness" but for wrongness. I'm not talking about "feeling" persecuted when I point out that the Muslims are DOING the vast majority of the ACTUAL persecuting -- killing -- in the world today. I don't defend the Inquisition at all, since I reject Catholicism, and since it was a complete violation of the spirit of Christ which persecuted the proto Protestants as well as everybody else. And I only defend the Crusades to the extent of pointing out that they were provoked by Muslim aggression, although they went on to commit their own atrocities.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I RECOGNIZE that we share a common understanding that makes us members of the Bible-believing Christian fraternity. You can be Bible believing, without believing that everything in the Bible is the word of God. Not as I use the term you can't.
Maybe some Israelis did horrible things, and credited those to God in order to absolve their own consciences. And perhaps that is what was recorded in parts of the old testament. That's very consistent with typical human behavior, so why would you suppose that is not what happened? I wouldn't "suppose" anything, I came to believe that the whole Bible was inspired by God, and I've found over the years that it lives up to that billing and only increases in its revelatory power, and that all those who treat it as inspired by God receive this same kind of understanding, that is closed to those who insist on manhandling it with their fallen intellect. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Of course, as the creos here would no doubt advise us, since the tilde and the umlaut are different kinds, there can be no combining of the two. Alas. Naa, I'd probably argue that they are of the Kind Punctuation, whose original genome was big enough to contain all the possibilities since evolved.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Certainly the Kind Punctuation has spawned the whole branch of cartooniana.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sorry.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Is that really true Faith, numerically? My main sources have to do with persecution of Christians, and I don't have numbers, but a strong impression that the persecutors are predominantly Muslim. Other groups are also targeted, not just Christians, as Islam cannot tolerate any other religion. The mainstream press tends to play down the religious aspect of various conflicts in the world, spinning them as political when they are really religious. There are always some political aspects, but the primary cause is the clash of religions. Just a couple of references: Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out - David Horowitz Christian Persecution Information - ...never forgetting the Christians who are persecuted Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
as Islam cannot tolerate any other religion Just like Christianity at one time did not tolerate any other religion or any other sect. Yes if you mean the Inquisition and all that, but that was a departure from the teachings of Christ. Some claim that terrorism and murder is a departure from Islam too, but in that case there's a lot on the other side that says it's perfectly orthodox, since Mohammed himself used the sword to force conversions, which Christ certainly never did, quite the opposite. But I'm speaking of the present, and in the present, Islam does not tolerate other religions in the sense of killing their adherents, whereas Christians, while rejecting the beliefs of other religions, DO certainly tolerate them.
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