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Author Topic:   Hovind busted, finally
jar
Member
Posts: 32682
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 166 of 308 (360916)
11-02-2006 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by subbie
11-02-2006 6:29 PM


What great news.
Fantastic news. May he be sentenced to all 288 years to be served consecutively. And may his wife get all 225 also to be served consecutively.

Maybe by the time they get out the public will be educated enough to not be taken in by such conmen.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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subbie
Member (Idle past 300 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 167 of 308 (360920)
11-02-2006 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by jar
11-02-2006 6:37 PM


Re: What great news.
Fantastic news.

Here here!

May he be sentenced to all 288 years to be served consecutively. And may his wife get all 225 also to be served consecutively.

Not bloody likely. It's a rare case where anyone gets the maximum possible sentence.

Maybe by the time they get out the public will be educated enough to not be taken in by such conmen.

Even less likely. Keep in mind P.T.'s law: There's one born every minute. That means that in 288 years there will be approximately 151,470,000 more suckers.


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

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iano
Member (Idle past 497 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 168 of 308 (360929)
11-02-2006 7:19 PM


How many years can a person expect to serve of a 288 yr sentence (in a case such as this)?

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jar
Member
Posts: 32682
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 169 of 308 (360933)
11-02-2006 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by iano
11-02-2006 7:19 PM


well Adam lived 900 years...

So I say let Kent give it a try and do the best he can.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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subbie
Member (Idle past 300 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 170 of 308 (360936)
11-02-2006 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by iano
11-02-2006 7:19 PM


You're putting the cart before the horse. He hasn't been sentenced to 288 years. That is the maximum that he could face. And it's quite unlikely, in my opinion, that he will get the whole 288 years.

Whatever sentence he ends up getting, he will likely have to serve 85% of the time before he is released. There is no federal parole. Federal prisoners can get a "good time credit" of up to 54 days for every year served.


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

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Replies to this message:
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AnswersInGenitals
Member
Posts: 567
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 171 of 308 (360940)
11-02-2006 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by subbie
11-02-2006 6:44 PM


Re: What great news.
Unfortunately, the only real change is that the Hovinds will now be housed and fed on the taxpayer's dime. Some assistant will take over Ken and Barbie's Jo's 'ministry' and their 'clients' will just be even more convinced that the anti-christ is amonst us and the end-times are nigh. They are like sheep racing to be the first one into the sheering corral. "Hey buddy. You missed some around the scrotum."

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iano
Member (Idle past 497 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 172 of 308 (360943)
11-02-2006 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by subbie
11-02-2006 7:34 PM


You're putting the cart before the horse. He hasn't been sentenced to 288 years. That is the maximum that he could face. And it's quite unlikely, in my opinion, that he will get the whole 288 years.

If he got as little a 30% of the max then its a moot point. Unless one gets life for tax crimes in the states then there is some typical expectation which falls far short of 288 years. What kind of zone would he fall into.

Ireland? He'd get 10 be out in 5.


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subbie
Member (Idle past 300 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 173 of 308 (360948)
11-02-2006 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by iano
11-02-2006 7:46 PM


Sentencing follows a set of guidelines established by a Federal Commission pursuant to an act of Congress. The guidelines are rather complicated, and to determine the exact range of sentences that the Hovinds would fall under would require knowing exactly what crimes they were convicted of, at least a general idea of the amount of money involved, and their prior criminal history.

I do not know any of these details, so to give even a range of possible sentences would be sheer speculation.

It may well be, given the large number of charges and the fairly large sums of money involved, that either of them might get sentences that would, for all practical purposes, keep them in prison for the rest of their lives. In that event, their only remaining option would be Presidential clemency.


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

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mark24
Member (Idle past 3752 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 174 of 308 (360952)
11-02-2006 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by iano
11-02-2006 7:46 PM


Wouldn't the sentences be served concurrently rather than consecutively? eg. Three sentences of 5, 8, & 10 years mean you serve 10 years total.

Mark


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iano
Member (Idle past 497 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 175 of 308 (360954)
11-02-2006 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by subbie
11-02-2006 7:53 PM


It may well be, given the large number of charges and the fairly large sums of money involved, that either of them might get sentences that would, for all practical purposes, keep them in prison for the rest of their lives. In that event, their only remaining option would be Presidential clemency.

Your kidding me! Life (or a serious proportion of it) for the theft of money?!!


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iano
Member (Idle past 497 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 176 of 308 (360959)
11-02-2006 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by jar
11-02-2006 6:37 PM


Re: What great news.
Fantastic news. May he be sentenced to all 288 years to be served consecutively. And may his wife get all 225 also to be served consecutively.

Jar, your looking more like the sickest of psycos with every elapsing minute. God have mercy (and I do say it with extreme difficulty) on your black soul.

{AbE} This is it folks. We've been over it all over the years. The fine intellectual arguments, the debate, the argument, the points sharply tuned, the rebuttals equally so. To arrive at the above.

This is the blackest, most ugly statement I have seen in all my time here bar none. We all know what we are capable of and if we were 'caught' doing it then 288 years would have to apply to us to. You either know that or you don't - I cannot help you there.

This is sin demonstrating how vile it is. The only thing is that you can see it too. Don't concentrat on who said it. Concentrate on what was said. I don't condemn Jar for saying what he said. He just brought the pimple of ugliness that is sin to the yellow, puss- filled surface that allows us all to see it (sin) for what it is. Look at it: are you repelled? If you are (and I dearly hope you are) then what is said is the most convincing thing I have seen here for the argument for sin. The Bible says that it has infected you, me, Faith and all the rest of mankind

You must be repelled. If you are you now have a glimpse as to why God is repelled. If you are not, then God have mercy on your soul too.

Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


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subbie
Member (Idle past 300 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 177 of 308 (360965)
11-02-2006 8:27 PM


DISCLAIMER: I have never worked with the Federal Sentencing Guidelines. What follows is what I have been able to glean in the short time I have been looking this evening in response to various questions. I have a moderate level of confidence that this information is somewhat accurate and will give some idea what the Hovinds may be looking at, but it should be considered far from authoritative and I will defer to anyone else's judgment who has greater expertise than I do.

It appears that they may be looking at guidelines sentences in the range of 33-41 months, assuming they have no prior criminal convictions that would be relevant for sentencing purposes. This takes into account, as best I can determine, the offenses they appear to have been convicted of, evading cash transfer reporting requirements and failure to pay taxes, and the amount of money involved, in the range of $400,000-$1,000,000. The guidelines presumptive dispostion is that they serve a sentence in this range, as opposed to probation or some other disposition.

The judge has the discretion to depart from this range, either in terms of duration or in terms of disposition. There are dozens of different factors that a judge may consider in deciding whether to depart. It is well beyond my abilities to determine whether any such factors may be present or the likelihood that a judge might depart based on any of them.


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

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jar
Member
Posts: 32682
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 178 of 308 (360968)
11-02-2006 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by subbie
11-02-2006 8:27 PM


How about the employees they shafted?
Will they be required to pony up all the back taxes and FICA for their employees? Can the state take the property and sell it, using the proceeds to pay the back taxes?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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subbie
Member (Idle past 300 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 179 of 308 (360969)
11-02-2006 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by jar
11-02-2006 8:33 PM


Re: How about the employees they shafted?
I suspect, but do not know, that the answer is yes. Having just spent the better part of an hour plowing through Federal Sentencing Guidelines, I haven't the inclination to look for a more convincing answer than that right now.


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by jar, posted 11-02-2006 8:33 PM jar has not yet responded

iano
Member (Idle past 497 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 180 of 308 (360970)
11-02-2006 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by subbie
11-02-2006 8:27 PM


I have a moderate level of confidence that this information is somewhat accurate and will give some idea what the Hovinds may be looking at, but it should be considered far from authoritative and I will defer to anyone else's judgment who has greater expertise than I do.

I'm not holding you to anything at all. I was in the high court once and to be honest I'd prefer the certainty offered by the roulette table.

Take the best stab you can.

Total convicted time/ likely time served?

{AbE}oh yeah..with a % plus/minus if you could. I'd like to sleep tonight

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


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