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Author Topic:   Your eternal destination: you decide.
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 151 of 246 (360958)
11-02-2006 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by iano
11-02-2006 8:03 PM


Re: YEC = KFC
Sorry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 8:03 PM iano has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 152 of 246 (360966)
11-02-2006 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by iano
11-02-2006 8:03 PM


Re: YEC = KFC
Uhhhh, we do seem to have drifted a tad off course, don't we?
Sorry, my fault. I think I got us started down this road.
My second mea culpa in this thread.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

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 Message 150 by iano, posted 11-02-2006 8:03 PM iano has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 153 of 246 (360974)
11-02-2006 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by jar
11-02-2006 10:23 AM


Re: To be fair to Iano...
As for someone saying they know GOD exists, they are simply lying to themselves successfully, and that is very sad.
How can you say that with any authority? If God appeared right in front of you, you would have no way to prove it, but you would know that God exists.
I used to ridicule people who "thought" they saw angels. I have changed my stance on that, because I have learned that just about anything is possible.
By your statement you have judged a bunch of people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by jar, posted 11-02-2006 10:23 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 11-02-2006 9:07 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 154 of 246 (360979)
11-02-2006 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by riVeRraT
11-02-2006 8:59 PM


Re: To be fair to Iano...
How can you say that with any authority?
Authority? What is that?
Now reason and logic I might understand.
I can say that if GOD appeared to me I might well believe I saw GOD. But I cannot know it unless there was some way to test and verify that experience.
How would I tell it really was GOD and not some other critter? How would I know it was a real experience and not just an hallucination?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by riVeRraT, posted 11-02-2006 8:59 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by riVeRraT, posted 11-02-2006 10:09 PM jar has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 155 of 246 (360994)
11-02-2006 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by jar
11-02-2006 9:07 PM


Re: To be fair to Iano...
How would I tell it really was GOD and not some other critter? How would I know it was a real experience and not just an hallucination?
Your saying the God that created you, wouldn't verify himself to you? I would hope He at least has that ability.
I already feel He does, and has to me. I don't know why, or why it took so long, but it just is. I can not prove it to you, but it is proven to me. This does not mean I still do not need faith.
This is why I think I am going to heaven, and why I think many people are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 11-02-2006 9:07 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by jar, posted 11-02-2006 10:58 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 156 of 246 (361005)
11-02-2006 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by riVeRraT
11-02-2006 10:09 PM


Re: To be fair to Iano...
Your saying the God that created you, wouldn't verify himself to you?
How? How beyond belief? How do I know it is GOD and not some other entity?
What is the test of a God?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by riVeRraT, posted 11-02-2006 10:09 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by riVeRraT, posted 11-03-2006 7:25 AM jar has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 157 of 246 (361057)
11-03-2006 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by jar
11-02-2006 10:58 PM


Re: To be fair to Iano...
What is the test of a God?
truth, love.
He created you, I don't think you need to test it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by jar, posted 11-02-2006 10:58 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by jar, posted 11-03-2006 9:29 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 158 of 246 (361076)
11-03-2006 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by riVeRraT
11-03-2006 7:25 AM


Still no evidence of KNOW
truth, love.
He created you, I don't think you need to test it.
Sorry but so far you have offered nothing.
You claim that you can "know" God. I have asked how. So far you have offered no possible way to "Know", instead mentioning things like truth or love.
Once again I ask...
how can you know the experience is God and not some other critter or even just your imagination?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by riVeRraT, posted 11-03-2006 7:25 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by riVeRraT, posted 11-03-2006 11:01 AM jar has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 159 of 246 (361095)
11-03-2006 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by jar
11-03-2006 9:29 AM


Re: Still no evidence of KNOW
how can you know the experience is God and not some other critter or even just your imagination?
Like I said, you will just know, and you can't prove it to others.
Do you need to test the fact that you see this forum? Of course not.
Can you prove to others that you see the forum, only if they can see it too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by jar, posted 11-03-2006 9:29 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by jar, posted 11-03-2006 11:34 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 160 of 246 (361102)
11-03-2006 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by riVeRraT
11-03-2006 11:01 AM


Re: Still no evidence of KNOW
Like I said, you will just know, and you can't prove it to others.
Still nothing but empty assertion.
How can you just know? I'm sorry but you or anyone else who "Knows" god are simply lying to yourselves. Jones "Knew" God spoke to him. His followers "Knew" God spoke to them.
How can you tell that it is GOD speaking to you?
Do you need to test the fact that you see this forum?
Of course I do.
Can you prove to others that you see the forum, only if they can see it too.
Of course I can. Others do see it and in fact we can gather a group, look at a given message and all agree exactly which letters were used and what order they were in. In addition even inanimate objects like the search engine crawlers find and detect that this forum exists and even make copies of the material.
To imply that someone could doubt the existence of this forum, or the fact that I see it, requires yet another layer of willful ignorance.
The existence of this forum can be verified, my presence on this forum can be verified, even the fact that I am one person could be verified by analyzing the body of work here.
How do you know GOD?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by riVeRraT, posted 11-03-2006 11:01 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by riVeRraT, posted 11-03-2006 3:59 PM jar has replied

  
Sour
Member (Idle past 2247 days)
Posts: 63
From: I don't know but when I find out there will be trouble. (Portsmouth UK)
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 161 of 246 (361110)
11-03-2006 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Faith
11-02-2006 5:37 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
I'm not talking about "feeling" persecuted when I point out that the Muslims are DOING the vast majority of the ACTUAL persecuting -- killing -- in the world today.
Is that really true Faith, numerically?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 11-02-2006 5:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 11-03-2006 12:28 PM Sour has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 162 of 246 (361116)
11-03-2006 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Sour
11-03-2006 12:13 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
Is that really true Faith, numerically?
My main sources have to do with persecution of Christians, and I don't have numbers, but a strong impression that the persecutors are predominantly Muslim. Other groups are also targeted, not just Christians, as Islam cannot tolerate any other religion. The mainstream press tends to play down the religious aspect of various conflicts in the world, spinning them as political when they are really religious. There are always some political aspects, but the primary cause is the clash of religions. Just a couple of references:
Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out - David Horowitz
Christian Persecution Information - ...never forgetting the Christians who are persecuted
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Sour, posted 11-03-2006 12:13 PM Sour has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Sour, posted 11-03-2006 12:38 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 164 by iceage, posted 11-03-2006 2:07 PM Faith has replied

  
Sour
Member (Idle past 2247 days)
Posts: 63
From: I don't know but when I find out there will be trouble. (Portsmouth UK)
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 163 of 246 (361121)
11-03-2006 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
11-03-2006 12:28 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
I was just wondering about the M.E. at the moment, and if every Coalition member killed was killed by a Muslim, and every Muslim killed was simply killed by a soldier. I expect this is viewed differently on the other side of the fence. If you get my drift. OT I know.
Anyway, thanks for the references, I'll have a read.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 11-03-2006 12:28 PM Faith has not replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 164 of 246 (361140)
11-03-2006 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
11-03-2006 12:28 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
as Islam cannot tolerate any other religion
Just like Christianity at one time did not tolerate any other religion or any other sect.
Currently they are prone to a very literal reading of the scripture and they are merely acting on their convictions.
Islam is a younger religion give them a few centuries to mature. They need their Thomas Jefferson.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 11-03-2006 12:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 11-03-2006 3:22 PM iceage has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 165 of 246 (361150)
11-03-2006 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by iceage
11-03-2006 2:07 PM


Re: This is scary stuff...
as Islam cannot tolerate any other religion
Just like Christianity at one time did not tolerate any other religion or any other sect.
Yes if you mean the Inquisition and all that, but that was a departure from the teachings of Christ. Some claim that terrorism and murder is a departure from Islam too, but in that case there's a lot on the other side that says it's perfectly orthodox, since Mohammed himself used the sword to force conversions, which Christ certainly never did, quite the opposite.
But I'm speaking of the present, and in the present, Islam does not tolerate other religions in the sense of killing their adherents, whereas Christians, while rejecting the beliefs of other religions, DO certainly tolerate them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by iceage, posted 11-03-2006 2:07 PM iceage has not replied

  
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